Author Topic: самоорганізації in the ghetto  (Read 1249 times)

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Offline kyivkpic

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самоорганізації in the ghetto
« on: 21:32 25-Jan-2013 »
There is one of these in my neighborhood, which is far from a ghetto relative to other parts of Kyiv, but in comparison to where I come from, Kyiv is completely ghetto. I live in a raion around a large lake with a park, outdoor exercise center, football field. children's playgrounds, etc. As far as I understand, the самоорганізації existed independently long before Klitschko gave them funding and with the help of the local Rada Deputy(seemingly not completely psychopathic, I met him once)  has replaced much of the equipment for the playgrounds and, trucked in new sand, replaced benches, laid new sidewalks, and is even dredging the lake.

The interesting part is that there is a large portion of the park which is fenced off with those beautiful soviet drab green planks and is home to a pack of wild canines. Last year the самоорганізації protested against the planned development of a new apartment building there. There are several new buildings already adjacent. They tore the fence down, but apparently the powers that be decided that the land could be developed on despite its zoning as park property. The fence was put back, but there was another protest and legal filings last month, and the announcement in my lobby was that they were successful. They tore the fence down again and even burned the huge pile of wood while a single apathetic militia officer stood by throughout the day.

It gives me hope, but of course, the local alcoholics, degenerates, punks and other various undesirables have already started to cover the renovation with graffiti, bottles, garbage, feces, etc.

I can't wait until our house is finished at the homestead.

« Last Edit: 21:47 25-Jan-2013 by kyivkpic »

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Offline kyivkpic

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Re: самоорганізації in the ghetto
« Reply #1 on: 10:00 26-Jan-2013 »
When are Ukrainians going to realize that there is no point in trying to be clean when you live with apes who are sold a daily supply of booze, from multiple shops on every street, along with uncountable pieces of garbage to decorate the neighborhood with?

Here's an idea for the самоорганізації. Start a very low level violent temperance movement led by the old babushki. Even the hardest mercenaries and thugs will not mess the old babushki. The local militia certainly don't seem to have much honor or intestinal fortitude. Let those that will whip the punks on their asses for being vandalism and littering. Round up the chronic alcoholics and send them off to sanitoriums.

« Last Edit: 08:52 27-Jan-2013 by kyivkpic »
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Offline fionnain

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Re: самоорганізації in the ghetto
« Reply #2 on: 19:00 26-Jan-2013 »
When are Ukrainians going to realize that there is no point in trying to be clean when you live with apes who are sold a daily supply of booze, from multiple shops on every street, along with uncountable pieces of garbage to decorate the neighborhood with?

Here's an idea for the самоорганізації. Start a very low level violent temperance movement led by the old babushki. Even the hardest mercenaries and thugs will not mess the old babushki. The local militia certainly don't seem to have much honor or intestinal fortitude. Let those that will whip the punks on their asses for being vandalism and littering. Round up the chronic alcoholics and send them off to sanitoriums.

Hooligans that spray graffiti on playground equipment should be beaten. I would have been by the principal at my school and the flogging would have been approved by my community . Coincidentally, we had very few incidents of hooliganism and graffiti. The kid that threw a lit firecracker about 1.5 meters in front of my daughter while I was walking with her in her stroller is lucky that I am a civil man or he would have learned a painful lesson about messing with an animal's young. The next person that chucks an empty glass bottle somewhere in the general vicinity of my child in the park will have that bottle shoved up their rectum.  >:(

I know a grandmother from Alcorn County, Mississippi who is a modern day Carrie Nation and can still swing an ax handle and thump the tamborine while singing Amazing Grace!!!

Sounds like you need to import a chapter of the "Women's Temperance League" circa 1905!!!!

Offline kyivkpic

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Re: самоорганізації in the ghetto
« Reply #3 on: 08:53 27-Jan-2013 »
That is exactly what is needed. I don't see the point of any reforms that aren't centered around the problem of mass alcoholism and garbage.
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albert

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Re: самоорганізації in the ghetto
« Reply #4 on: 14:08 27-Jan-2013 »
Not much you like about this place, is there, son.

Offline kyivkpic

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Re: самоорганізації in the ghetto
« Reply #5 on: 18:19 27-Jan-2013 »
Not much you like about this place, is there, son.

Not Kyiv, but Kyiv is not Ukraine. I love our homestead and the forests and lakes. The farther I am from "civilization" the happier I am.
« Last Edit: 06:22 29-Jan-2013 by kyivkpic »
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Offline Claus

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Re: самоорганізації in the ghetto
« Reply #6 on: 18:49 27-Jan-2013 »
Yes, ice and poop!

But - also warmth care, concern.

Kyiv is by no means a bad place!
One instant picture - you know or should know that I just came out of severe surgery, and I'm now rather weak. Standing at the street was I, dim luxury cars rushing out of the rim-frost-fog; wondering how to ever cross the walls of ice, and then the street. But a young woman, not pretty but with verylong dark hair, just said, 'davai!' Hooked my arm, yelled the cars to stop, dragged me across the ice and the street - and then walked away with her friend.

In Copenhagen this would not have happened, nor in Prague.

As Albert said in another thread - sometimes Ukraine is simply paradise!  :)
« Last Edit: 19:18 27-Jan-2013 by Claus »
j'y suis, j'y reste!

Offline kyivkpic

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Re: самоорганізаці in the ghetto
« Reply #7 on: 20:33 27-Jan-2013 »
Yes, ice and poop!

But - also warmth care, concern.

Kyiv is by no means a bad place!
One instant picture - you know or should know that I just came out of severe surgery, and I'm now rather weak. Standing at the street was I, dim luxury cars rushing out of the rim-frost-fog; wondering how to ever cross the walls of ice, and then the street. But a young woman, not pretty but with verylong dark hair, just said, 'davai!' Hooked my arm, yelled the cars to stop, dragged me across the ice and the street - and then walked away with her friend.

In Copenhagen this would not have happened, nor in Prague.

As Albert said in another thread - sometimes Ukraine is simply paradise!  :)

There are random acts of kindness, no doubt. I did know that you went to the hospital and I'm glad that you're doing well.  :) Kyiv is certainly a skating rink right now.

I did rant too much. I actually wanted to start a discussion on самоорганізаці. This is about the last hope I have for Ukraine. Over the last year my closest friend, and Godfather of my daughter, has lost his farmland to "the family" and he isn't the only friend that has suffered under the gorillas at the top of the mafia/government right now. I'm hoping that the oligarchs will gang up on him eventually or perhaps Klitchko will overcome with his grassroots organization.

I know the forum is interested in painting a rosy picture of Ukraine but let's be honest.  It's dirty and there's a megalomaniac mafia don running rough shed over everything.

I'll be honest. I've been here over 4 years and I've always tried to be optimistic but it's becoming increasingly harder to give examples to my Ukrainian family and friends of the trends of social progression toward a kinder and less dysfunctional society that I try to see when they complain about the state of affairs.

самоорганізаці, people in communities coming together for their own interests, is the only hope I have for Ukraine. NGO's have certainly failed, if they ever did anything at all.

I think it has to start small, by picking up the trash and stop the selling of it in the first place. People don't give a poop, because they are surrounded by poop.

For those thinking of coming to Ukraine, it is what it is. It's a great escape and fantasy land, if that's what you want, or a remote and quiet place to retire out in the provinces, but Kyiv is most certainly not a wholesome place to raise a child.
« Last Edit: 17:38 28-Jan-2013 by kyivkpic »
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albert

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Re: самоорганізації in the ghetto
« Reply #8 on: 06:21 28-Jan-2013 »
When we bought our house, the street it is on was a total mess. Garbage, plastic and glass bottles everywhere, half a dozen tires, bits and pieces of wood, trash, etc etc. IOW what a bleedin' mess. Inside the two low walls was no better.

First thing we did, just VCO and me, was gather all the mess on our land outside the walls and pile it up. We cut down the overgrowth and raked it in to a big pile with the garbage and trash, then, sans the tires, burned it all. Next trick was to catch one of the local garbage trucks, hand the boss a hundred griven note and two shovels. End of problem, burned remains and tires gone in 10 minutes. The neighbors looked at us like we were nuts.

After, we started work on the house with a work crew. My work rules are get your butts to the sight by 06:30, have your coffee, and work starts at 07. I'm there at 06. First thing I did each and every morning was pick up the couple to half dozen bottles, empty cig packs, etc and put 'em in a trash bag.

Within two weeks everyone else on our block of 8 houses had cleaned up their outside area. When we started to actually make a small lawn and gardens out there, with a month 4 others had done the same, to a greater or lesser extent.

I knew I had won when our next door neighbor was screaming great obscenities at a couple young lads who tossed two empty beer bottles in her little flower garden, made them pick the bottles up and put them in the garbage bag she was holding.

It is useless to scream, rant and rave about city services and village mentality, then blame whatever current administration is in power in Kiev. They are all the same. You must lead by example. Did I change a single neighbor, or the others in the surrounding area where many have also cleaned up and some have put in gardens of flowers? Don't know, but at least a great amount of trash has been removed, and every day most the locals are now picking up the trash discarded over the night. Annoying? Yup. But I still pick it up every day, and I must say there is not much now, generally just the odd cigarette butt. Now it's almost worth telling VCO when there's an empty bottle tossed down outside the walls.

Offline fionnain

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Re: самоорганізації in the ghetto
« Reply #9 on: 17:03 28-Jan-2013 »
When we bought our house, the street it is on was a total mess. Garbage, plastic and glass bottles everywhere, half a dozen tires, bits and pieces of wood, trash, etc etc. IOW what a bleedin' mess. Inside the two low walls was no better.

First thing we did, just VCO and me, was gather all the mess on our land outside the walls and pile it up. We cut down the overgrowth and raked it in to a big pile with the garbage and trash, then, sans the tires, burned it all. Next trick was to catch one of the local garbage trucks, hand the boss a hundred griven note and two shovels. End of problem, burned remains and tires gone in 10 minutes. The neighbors looked at us like we were nuts.

After, we started work on the house with a work crew. My work rules are get your butts to the sight by 06:30, have your coffee, and work starts at 07. I'm there at 06. First thing I did each and every morning was pick up the couple to half dozen bottles, empty cig packs, etc and put 'em in a trash bag.

Within two weeks everyone else on our block of 8 houses had cleaned up their outside area. When we started to actually make a small lawn and gardens out there, with a month 4 others had done the same, to a greater or lesser extent.

I knew I had won when our next door neighbor was screaming great obscenities at a couple young lads who tossed two empty beer bottles in her little flower garden, made them pick the bottles up and put them in the garbage bag she was holding.

It is useless to scream, rant and rave about city services and village mentality, then blame whatever current administration is in power in Kiev. They are all the same. You must lead by example. Did I change a single neighbor, or the others in the surrounding area where many have also cleaned up and some have put in gardens of flowers? Don't know, but at least a great amount of trash has been removed, and every day most the locals are now picking up the trash discarded over the night. Annoying? Yup. But I still pick it up every day, and I must say there is not much now, generally just the odd cigarette butt. Now it's almost worth telling VCO when there's an empty bottle tossed down outside the walls.

Leadership by example usually worked in the Marine Corps.  I think it can work anywhere including Ukraine.  Good job Albert!!

Offline kyivkpic

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Re: самоорганізації in the ghetto
« Reply #10 on: 21:03 28-Jan-2013 »
We spent all summer getting all of the garbage cleaned up on our land. I paid the neighbor kids (a lesson about the value of work) to clean up their trash. We've been in talks with the local administration to acquire the undocumented plot next to us that's been used as a brush heap and trash pile in exchange for cleaning and maintaining it and donating some new computers to the local school. Other than those issues our village is relatively clean, which is a major reason why we bought the place. It's also at the edge of the village with our back lot in a large field going on to a forest. Thankfully, both are largely unsoiled but we pick up the trash we find when we go mushroom hunting.

I never did find any military items buried when we started digging. There's an active forum of people building new homes in our village, and a lot of hardware is found from WWII, perhaps some older. I've only found an old lock and a number of old nails and sprockets and other unrecognizable bits of rusted steel. We talked to one of our neighbors with a tractor about plowing our unused part of the field and he said he wouldn't do it unless we had the army come out and check for unexploded ordinances.

Our little village isn't unappealing and there are constant improvements, including our own efforts. There is an actual sense of community in our village, unlike Kyiv. People ride horses and ride on wagons or putt around on old motorcycles. They all seem happier than the poor souls stuck like sardines in a marshrutka on a hot day with traffic at a standstill for an hour so the King can roll through on his daily parade.
« Last Edit: 07:50 29-Jan-2013 by kyivkpic »
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albert

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Re: самоорганізації in the ghetto
« Reply #11 on: 07:14 29-Jan-2013 »
I wouldn't plow either if there was fighting on the land without it being checked. The locals know better than The Powers That Be for sure. When the foundations for our walls were dug, we found all kinds of bits and pieces, cartridge cases, barbed wire, parts of a Russian field kitchen, expended German grenade fuses, harness buckles and rings, etc etc. And one little item that gave everyone heart failure when the shovel hit it. Fortunately it was empty and with no fuse. It's gone for sure, though. We then had the entire lot metal detected, and there was nothing found that was big enough to be a problem. We knew from the babushki that there was heavy fighting on our land, both from the war and the revolution.

To give you an idea of how dangerous old ordinance is and how unstable it can be, about 6 years down Inkerman way, two young lads were digging a hot water feed pipe trench in an open area across the road from all the flats down there. One hit something with his shovel, two chemicals met and renewed an old animosity, and we instantly had two dead boys and a fair sized crater.

Even in EU, dozens are still lost every year from old ordinance from both great wars. It is truly frightening to watch on Youtube the idiots digging around on the battlefields and carelessly handling and tossing about all kinds of shells, ammo, grenades, Panzerfaust rounds, etc etc. While I am not afraid of old ordinance, I would treat it with a healthy respect for sure.

Even it there was supposedly no fighting in an area, it's a good idea to check. Supply dumps, ammo dumps, etc, were everywhere. And the stuff can last for centuries. Just a few years ago, in Florida, a respected and knowledgeable Civil War collector for some reason decided to drill in to a shell he had found up Savannah way. He's dead now. The shell was live 140 odd years after it splashed in to the water he found it in. Go figure.

Offline Glyn Thomas.

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Re: самоорганізації in the ghetto
« Reply #12 on: 07:41 29-Jan-2013 »
I won't ambush the thread but instead start a new one on metal detecting... a friend of mine who is Ukrainian but lives in US has a fantastic website on the subject,
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Offline kyivkpic

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Re: самоорганізації in the ghetto
« Reply #13 on: 07:46 29-Jan-2013 »
Maybe we could just move it to my homesteading thread? It's relevant to that thread.
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Offline fionnain

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Re: самоорганізації in the ghetto
« Reply #14 on: 17:11 29-Jan-2013 »
I won't ambush the thread but instead start a new one on metal detecting... a friend of mine who is Ukrainian but lives in US has a fantastic website on the subject,

Okay, is that man a friend of yours or a friend of mines?  Perhaps he is both?  Did he leave Ukraine because he was tired if wading through the mine fields of too much government regulation?  The Ukrainian Finance Ministry is apparently only a shell-casing of its former self and is a powder keg waiting for a debt-tonation.  Will they miss-fire on the debt default, or will it only be a dud?  Either way you can be expected to catch some devaluation flak.  The whole story may found in Gun Powder Magazine which will be blasting onto local newstands for several explosive rounds fired in semi-auto mode each month.  They will piece together the story with brick and mortar rounds and promise not to sand bag you when reporting from the bunker.