Author Topic: Thoughts on the news from the Vatican  (Read 8665 times)

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Offline P-N

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Re: Thoughts on the news from the Vatican
« Reply #15 on: 21:27 13-Feb-2013 »
slander much?

I think you mean libelous (and possibly defamation) rather than slander.
"When surrounded by the dark void of the willfully blind, it does not excuse those that are a spark of light their duty to shine" - Me

Offline kyivkpic

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Re: Thoughts on the news from the Vatican
« Reply #16 on: 21:33 13-Feb-2013 »
well... I wonder if the Vatican's financial scandals have anything to do with his resignation? http://www.forbes.com/sites/realspin/2012/06/26/the-vatican-bank-the-most-secret-bank-in-the-world/

I'm not going to show any respect to His Excellency, sorry guys. I'm not denigrating the Christian faith, but I grew up in a VERY Catholic family and I think the Catholic Church is the world's largest cult. It's certainly an occult society and the Vatican as an institution has a bad track record. The crusades, the Inquisition, 100 years war, pedophile scandals, hordes of gold and riches and expects 10% of parishioners income, and still can't help a poor illegitimate bastard child (that would be me) who had to go to Mass every week and didn't even have a decent winter coat or shoes. Why? because I was an illegitimate bastard child.
« Last Edit: 21:38 13-Feb-2013 by kyivkpic »
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Offline P-N

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Re: Thoughts on the news from the Vatican
« Reply #17 on: 21:36 13-Feb-2013 »
........but I grew up in a VERY Catholic family.......

Likewise.
"When surrounded by the dark void of the willfully blind, it does not excuse those that are a spark of light their duty to shine" - Me

Offline kyivkpic

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Re: Thoughts on the news from the Vatican
« Reply #18 on: 21:37 13-Feb-2013 »
He was probably about to be exposed for diddling little boys.

slander much?

It would be a real shocker if a high ranking Catholic priest were indicted for such a thing or concealing it, wouldn't it?

He gives me the creeps, and how can anyone be taken seriously who dresses like that and expects people to refer to him as "His Excellency" and kiss his ring? What century are we in?

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. 

At least 1 Billion Catholics world wide take him seriously, so you are most definetly in the minority in disliking his attire and his person.  Live and let live and let freedom ring!!

Well, fionnain, by that logic, there are 1.6 billion muslims, so.... perhaps you should live and live with the muslims?
« Last Edit: 21:50 13-Feb-2013 by kyivkpic »
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Offline kyivkpic

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Re: Thoughts on the news from the Vatican
« Reply #19 on: 21:42 13-Feb-2013 »
slander much?

I think you mean libelous (and possibly defamation) rather than slander.

Alright.... he isn't a pedophile (as far as we know) but he has been accused of covering up pedophilia by none other than Christopher Hitchens. http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/fighting_words/2010/03/the_great_catholic_coverup.html
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Offline kyivkpic

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Re: Thoughts on the news from the Vatican
« Reply #20 on: 21:48 13-Feb-2013 »
back to OP

Mark, here's Joseph P. Farrell's conspiratorial and occult take on the resignation.

http://gizadeathstar.com/2013/02/flash-some-thoughts-concering-the-resignation-of-ratzinger/
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Offline lordtiberius

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Re: Thoughts on the news from the Vatican
« Reply #21 on: 21:57 13-Feb-2013 »
slander much?

I think you mean libelous (and possibly defamation) rather than slander.

Alright.... he isn't a pedophile (as far as we know) but he has been accused of covering up pedophilia by none other than Christopher Hitchens. http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/fighting_words/2010/03/the_great_catholic_coverup.html

I don't see the point in discussing this if you make yourself an any enemy of the facts.  God Bless You!
My comic is about the Russian submarine Kursk. Check out the first 5 pages & tell me what u think!  https://www.facebook.com/pages/The-Kursk-by-Sasha-Janowicz/444388175655458?ref=tn_tnmn

Offline kyivkpic

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Re: Thoughts on the news from the Vatican
« Reply #22 on: 22:09 13-Feb-2013 »
slander much?

I think you mean libelous (and possibly defamation) rather than slander.

Alright.... he isn't a pedophile (as far as we know) but he has been accused of covering up pedophilia by none other than Christopher Hitchens. http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/fighting_words/2010/03/the_great_catholic_coverup.html

I don't see the point in discussing this if you make yourself an any enemy of the facts.  God Bless You!

I didn't know it was a discussion. Facts are facts, I'm not an enemy of them. I'd love to see their bank accounts.

If you want to defend the creepy old man, you're going to have to give me some serious facts to support the Vatican's good name, but so far you haven't. You've just made an appeal to authority, which is a logical fallacy.

God Bless You
« Last Edit: 22:12 13-Feb-2013 by kyivkpic »
Твоя голова всегда в ответе за то, куда сядет твой зад.

Offline lordtiberius

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Re: Thoughts on the news from the Vatican
« Reply #23 on: 23:47 13-Feb-2013 »
slander much?

I think you mean libelous (and possibly defamation) rather than slander.

Alright.... he isn't a pedophile (as far as we know) but he has been accused of covering up pedophilia by none other than Christopher Hitchens. http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/fighting_words/2010/03/the_great_catholic_coverup.html

I don't see the point in discussing this if you make yourself an any enemy of the facts.  God Bless You!

I didn't know it was a discussion. Facts are facts, I'm not an enemy of them. I'd love to see their bank accounts.

If you want to defend the creepy old man, you're going to have to give me some serious facts to support the Vatican's good name, but so far you haven't. You've just made an appeal to authority, which is a logical fallacy.

God Bless You

here's a fact.  Someday you will die.  You will probably be forgotten.  Someday I will die, maybe I will be forgotten too.  But the Catholic Church will live on, because people will choose to be apart of it now until the end of time and no nasty slur or half truth you utter will change that.  I hope your Mother is still praying for you.  You need it.  Good Day!
My comic is about the Russian submarine Kursk. Check out the first 5 pages & tell me what u think!  https://www.facebook.com/pages/The-Kursk-by-Sasha-Janowicz/444388175655458?ref=tn_tnmn

Offline P-N

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Re: Thoughts on the news from the Vatican
« Reply #24 on: 02:51 14-Feb-2013 »
Writing as a person raised Catholic, I will quite happily state that there are faults within the Catholic Church, particularly so within the Vatican relating to the political shenanigans and financial nefariousness therein - to name but two areas of concern - but ever has it been thus within the Holy See.

I will also quite happily state that there were, and undoubtedly still are, issues within the areas of pedophile priesthood -  and no doubt there are other issues as well, many of which are quietly dealt with internally.  But we are talking about the structure and individuals within said structure and all structures have their faults, some exceptionally serious faults and others minor.

Attacking, criticising, mocking, analising that structure has no effect in the faith of believers - after all their faith is ultimately not with the Church but with the entity the Church worships and purports to be a conduit to. 

There can be no justification for the way the Catholic Church initially dealt with the pedophilia issue.  There is no more justification for its more recent attempts to keep a lid on it until it became quite clear that the lid could no longer be kept on.  There is no justification in the Church obstructing any form of parliamentary or criminal inquiries into its efforts to deal with these matters quietly and internally.

Thus, blunt attacks or those ones delivered with delicacy and finesse on the structure and some individuals within the Church are to be expected and also not defended blindly.  Just as a patriot will love their country but recognise when it is wrong and a nationalist will simply love their country regardless of its wrongs,  it is necessary to recognise when the Church and/or some of its employees have significant failings and are indeed guilty of, or complicit in, abhorrent and highly distasteful acts.  Something not exclusive to Catholicism of course.

The same can be said of Islam, Judaism or any other form of organised religion.  The simple fact is, regardless of the faults of any organised religion, the believers ultimately believe in a God (or Gods) over and above the Church organisational structure and people within - regardless of the religion.  If your faith is blindly in "The Church", (whatever religion) and not in a God (or Gods) then surely that faith is misplaced.

When all is said and done, believers believe (whether they adhere to any organised religion or not) and non-believers do not.

If anybody seriously thinks that this forum is a place where a highly intelligent and intellectual theological debate will occur  such as this one below for example, then I am afraid I am yet to see any signs of such intellect on display in this forum (take offence if you wish, but none is meant):

Richard Dawkins, Rowan Williams, Anthony Kenny: "Human Beings & Ultimate Origin" Debate

Therefore, I see nothing to be gained by blindly defending the acts of an organisation or those within it when it is found wanting, any more than blindly dismissing the genuinely helpful deeds carried out by the same structures when they occur.  The failure to accept either is simply a display of incredibly small-mindedness.
« Last Edit: 02:56 14-Feb-2013 by P-N »
"When surrounded by the dark void of the willfully blind, it does not excuse those that are a spark of light their duty to shine" - Me

Offline lordtiberius

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Re: Thoughts on the news from the Vatican
« Reply #25 on: 04:29 14-Feb-2013 »
Your argument though valid is much ado about nothing as the current Pope was a fierce advocate for prosecution.  Further the US Bishops asked John Jay College to independently audit the church of the more than 11,000 complaints launched at less than 4,500 men, it is about 4% of the priest population where as the pedophile population is between 5 to 10% of men and between .4 to 4% of women.

Today is Ash Wednesday.  I challenge you to re-examine your faith.  Ask yourself if pride has not blighted your vision and ask yourself as Peter has, "Who else has the words of Eternal Life?"
My comic is about the Russian submarine Kursk. Check out the first 5 pages & tell me what u think!  https://www.facebook.com/pages/The-Kursk-by-Sasha-Janowicz/444388175655458?ref=tn_tnmn

Offline fionnain

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Re: Thoughts on the news from the Vatican
« Reply #26 on: 04:50 14-Feb-2013 »
He was probably about to be exposed for diddling little boys.

slander much?
 

It would be a real shocker if a high ranking Catholic priest were indicted for such a thing or concealing it, wouldn't it?

He gives me the creeps, and how can anyone be taken seriously who dresses like that and expects people to refer to him as "His Excellency" and kiss his ring? What century are we in?

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. 

At least 1 Billion Catholics world wide take him seriously, so you are most definetly in the minority in disliking his attire and his person.  Live and let live and let freedom ring!!

Well, fionnain, by that logic, there are 1.6 billion muslims, so.... perhaps you should live and live with the muslims?

I am all for living and let live with the Muslims.  The problem is that they will not agree to do the same.  Muslims murdered my friends in Beirut in 1983 and many others since that time. 


Offline fionnain

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Re: Thoughts on the news from the Vatican
« Reply #27 on: 05:14 14-Feb-2013 »
The Catholic Church does not need defending here or anywhere else.  The church is flawed because it is led by men and all men are flawed.  The thread was started to discuss the resignation of the current Pope.  The Pope is not on trial and I am not aware of any evidence that this man was a pedofile or a dirty financial dealer. 

The Catholic church has weathered many storms and it still survives and does more good than bad.  Kind of like most of us here I suppose. 

What the US Bishops did wrong with regard to the pedofile priests in the USA was not to warn and separate the bad priests from being able to repeat their sinful and horrible acts with children.  They wanted to handle the problems within the church and they failed very badly. 

No one here is requred to like or even respect the Pope, but there is no need to make wild and unsubstantiated allegations against him. 

Most of the Christians in the USA do not believe in a "Pope" since there is no Bibical source for such an office or a large autocratic church for that matter.  But, just because there is no Bibical reference for the concept of a Pope, that does not mean that a Pope cannot be respected and do a lot of good in the world. 

It was Christ that said when two or more of my followers are gathered in my name that is where you will find my church.  So, the concept of a church does not have to be a large centrally organized institution, but rather a small gathering of believers that simply want to worship and share fellowship together. 

Fair and constructive criticism is always welcome, but there is no need to get wreckless with false and unsubstantiaed accusations about an 85  year old man regardless of his office. 

We are about to witness history and that is what this thread was started for gentlemen. 
« Last Edit: 14:32 14-Feb-2013 by fionnain »

Offline kyivkpic

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Re: Thoughts on the news from the Vatican
« Reply #28 on: 07:45 14-Feb-2013 »
It's getting deep here on the forum.  :(
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Offline P-N

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Re: Thoughts on the news from the Vatican
« Reply #29 on: 10:37 14-Feb-2013 »
It's getting deep here on the forum.  :(

And the thread is probably missing the subtle issue the OP was attempting to raise. As I previously stated, knowing MW Dabbs as well as I do, I strongly suspect his OP has much, much more to do with the Prophecies of Malachi.

 
"When surrounded by the dark void of the willfully blind, it does not excuse those that are a spark of light their duty to shine" - Me