Thoughts on the news from the Vatican

[kyivkpic]

I did post the link to Joseph P. Farrell's article.

I don't have much to say about Malachi's prophecy. I've heard the talk about it on Coast to Coast AM, but religious prophecy is not for me. It certainly makes for interesting stories and tales on late night talk radio, though.
 

[fionnain]

It's getting deep here on the forum. 

And the thread is probably missing the subtle issue the OP was attempting to raise. As I previously stated, knowing MW Dabbs as well as I do, I strongly suspect his OP has much, much more to do with the Prophecies of Malachi.

 

The Book of Malachi was the last book of the Old Testament and the last book of the twelve minor prophets.  It was written after the Jews returned to Israel after the 70 years of exile into Babylon.  The book was written by an anonymus author in approximately 455 BC and is historically important because it gives a picture of life in the Jewish community after they returned from exile in Babylon between the period of Haggai and the reform measures of Ezra and Nehemiah. 

The book contains only three chapters and the first two chapters describe the sins of the priests and the sins of the people and the consequences of disobedience.  The third and final chapter deals with prophecy and the coming of the messenger of the covenant.  There is however, reference to fire and judgment upon the wicked.

" . . . 19 For lo, the day is coming, blazing like an oven, when all the proud and all the evil doers will be stubble,
And the day that is coming will set them on fire,
leaving them neither root nor branch,
says the Lord of hosts. 
20 But for you who fear my name, there will arise
the sun of justice with its healing rays;
And you will gambol like calve out of the stall
21 and tread down the wicked;
They will become ashes under the soles of your feet,
on the day I take action, says the Lord of hosts." . . .
Malachi 3:19-21

In the Book of Matthew, Jesus quotes from Malachi and instructs that the prophesy in Malachi was about the coming of John the Baptist who is said to have paved the way for he coming of Christ's three year ministry. 

I do not know if OP was referring to Malachi in starting this thread, but the predictions of Malachi were directed at the Jews that were living under the law.  Since the coming of Christ, we no longer live under the law, but instead we live under grace.  So, the prophecy is no longer valid to the followers of Christ since their sins have been covered by the blood of the lamb and they live under grace and not the law of Moses. 

[P-N]

Yes I know all that - but the prophecies referred to and generally known as the Prophecies of Malachi are those of Saint Malachi the 12th Century Bishop of Ireland who (it is claimed by some) wrote just over 100 cryptic Latin ruminations relating to the forthcoming Popes (and anti-Popes).  Nothing to do with the Old Testament whatsoever.

The current Pope, Benedict XVI corresponds to the name of the Pope that is penultimate on that list.  Thereafter is Peter Romanus (or Peter the Roman) who is the final Pope on the list.

Ergo, I suspect the OP was inferring, or indeed posing the question, that considering the penultimate named Pope on the list has just resigned, coinciding with a lightening strike on the Vatican the same day, is some form of Apocalypse heading for humanity (or the Catholic Church) in the very near future.

As it seems very likely that the next Pope will not be a European for the first time in a very long time, possibly the first time ever, (I don't recall and am not interested enough to look it up), there may well be quite a number amongst the Catholic ranks that may consider that something close to Apocalyptic.  Enough to create terminal friction, who knows?

Or maybe, it could very well mean the Apocalypse in a very real sense for humanity, or for Christianity, or for Catholic Church in particular - or anything else for that matter - who knows.

To take it even remotely seriously, one must of course attribute the Prophicies of Malachi to St Malachi in the first place - which the Catholic Church, naturally, does not.

As with all things, time will tell.  It would be quite interesting if the next Pope were to take the name "Peter" though 

[kyivkpic]

Or maybe, it could very well mean the Apocalypse in a very real sense for humanity, or for Christianity, or for Catholic Church in particular - or anything else for that matter - who knows.

To take it even remotely seriously, one must of course attribute the Prophicies of Malachi to St Malachi in the first place - which the Catholic Church, naturally, does not.

As with all things, time will tell.  It would be quite interesting if the next Pope were to take the name "Peter" though 

Or it could just self-fulfilling prophecy that's completely fabricated which the Church's PR masters who then weave it into their public drama to beguile the gullible masses (kind of like how ancient priests could terrorize and exploit the masses by being able to predict eclipses and other astronomical phenomenon). It's all pageantry. Look at the ridiculous outfits they wear. The Church is show business. Believe me, it's  awkward to actually have to go and make sure the priest's ornate gowns are ruffled in the just right patterns for the photography while he prostrates himself in some gesture that comes the feudal system which Christianity went hand in hand. You prostrate yourself before a tyrant who has his back against a wall and his henchmen to his sides and is terrified of being attacked.

The verses are certainly good poetry, which is supposed to be the art of the describing the indescribable, but like all prophecy they just have some basic truisms mixed with some mystical gobbledygook. Perhaps someone did have a psychedelic apocalyptic vision and wrote it down with some vague coincidences, but Armageddon and the Islamic equivalents are all just scary stories for children and the weak minded. They're even scarier when you have a near majority of people in a nation like the US passively and actively accepting and supporting murder and destruction of entire societies because they're blasted with media that insinuates that Israel and the middle east wars (among others) are all involved in some otherworldly religious context instead of psychopathic economic rationale. That's a bit more complicated than magical stories which lull the believers with the promise of everlasting happiness after a Apocalypse so that they really don't object to the war, because that just means the time is getting closer to the return of an imaginary savior. It's linear thinking and pernicious, and we don't know for certain that human history is linear or cyclical. The universe is full of cycles so perhaps the Apocalypse is a recurring aspect of the Universe. The Apocalypse has certainly come for most other species on this planet. If there is an Apocalypse then perhaps it's for the better, but I don't think it has to happen. The most likely way for it to happen would come from the two large masses of believers whose faiths come from Apocalyptic stories with leaders possessing weapons of mass destruction. I hope that doesn't happen, but if it does then any survivors from the warring faiths will realize they didn't go to the never ending happy land in the sky and perhaps our species will evolve into trans-humanist era, we'll merge with the machines and travel to the stars and forget about silly old stories.

Who knows?... perhaps a giant rock will fall from the sky instead and it's known by the elite who are building underground bunkers. But I suspect the lightning strike was just a photo-shop job or an old photo or it was just an odd coincidence. It looks like a structure that probably get's hit by lightning frequently if there is a lightning storm.

[Fraucha]

Apocalypse ....

I lost count of the times we were/are heading for or on the cusp of an Apocalypse. We are still here.

So the Pope resignes, so it doesn't happen that often, but odds are that it would have happened and will again. Remember he is only  a man, used to be a real boy (a Hitler Youth no less), not an actual god, just another Pope lost to time and regulated to obscurity, until this brilliant stroke of genius. A quitter, I might add, when lesser Popes served until their death he decides to wog out because his health is failing...hell he has kept that pacemaker secret for three years, change the batteries, man up and serve until the end like the great and not so great Popes of the past.  I now have less respect for him for making his mark in history the chicken poop way, which was the only way he was going to be remembered.

Malachi? Pfft.... In 1700 years when they dig ExpatUA out of "the cloud" on some unforeseen data mining quest, and find that I Fraucha am sure the Chicago Cubs will win the World Series after North and South Korea reunite,* future generations of robots will think (and rightly so) that even Fraucha was a prophet. We should make a list of "events" come up with a pen name and publish them, our creation will live forever, just like all the other drugged out freaks who pounded crap predictions in stone or scratched them out on some other high tech medium at the time.

* You read it here first!

[P-N]

I forget all the tales and folklore that surround the Prophecies of Malachi, but naturally the Catholic Church do not attribute the prophecies to Saint Malachi as some do.  It quite simply does not, and would not do to attach such prophecies to an Irish Bishop subsequently made a saint prior to said prophecies emergence/discovery predicting a papal legacy both good, bad and ultimately apocalyptic. 

It is not so easy to un-saint a saint after all, thus easier to denounce this Latin text as falsely attributed to Saint Malachi - and falsely attributed it may well be.  It could very well be the result of some Middle Ages prank, tomfoolery or subversive nefarious act.

If memory serves, the said prophecies came to see the light of day sometime around the 16th century - again I have so little interest I am not prepared to look it up.

[P-N]

.......The most likely way for it to happen would come from the two large masses of believers whose faiths come from Apocalyptic stories with leaders possessing weapons of mass destruction. I hope that doesn't happen, but if it does then any survivors from the warring faiths will realize they didn't go to the never ending happy land in the sky.......

Which would rather nicely take us to Albert Pike (who as far as I know is the only Confederate General to have a statue in Washington) and his 15th August 1871 letter to Mazzini (or a letter attributed to him) relating to WWI, WWII and what he foresees as WWIII - resulting in nihilism.

"The First World War must be brought about in order to permit the Illuminati to overthrow the power of the Czars in Russia and of making that country a fortress of atheistic Communism. The divergences caused by the "agentur" (agents) of the Illuminati between the British and Germanic Empires will be used to foment this war. At the end of the war, Communism will be built and used in order to destroy the other governments and in order to weaken the religions.

The Second World War must be fomented by taking advantage of the differences between the Fascists and the political Zionists. This war must be brought about so that Nazism is destroyed and that the political Zionism be strong enough to institute a sovereign state of Israel in Palestine. During the Second World War, International Communism must become strong enough in order to balance Christendom, which would be then restrained and held in check until the time when we would need it for the final social cataclysm.

The Third World War must be fomented by taking advantage of the differences caused by the "agentur" of the "Illuminati" between the political Zionists and the leaders of Islamic World. The war must be conducted in such a way that Islam (the Moslem Arabic World) and political Zionism (the State of Israel) mutually destroy each other. Meanwhile the other nations, once more divided on this issue will be constrained to fight to the point of complete physical, moral, spiritual and economical exhaustion?We shall unleash the Nihilists and the atheists, and we shall provoke a formidable social cataclysm which in all its horror will show clearly to the nations the effect of absolute atheism, origin of savagery and of the most bloody turmoil. Then everywhere, the citizens, obliged to defend themselves against the world minority of revolutionaries, will exterminate those destroyers of civilization, and the multitude, disillusioned with Christianity, whose deistic spirits will from that moment be without compass or direction, anxious for an ideal, but without knowing where to render its adoration, will receive the true light through the universal manifestation of the pure doctrine of Lucifer, brought finally out in the public view. This manifestation will result from the general reactionary movement which will follow the destruction of Christianity and atheism, both conquered and exterminated at the same time."

All jolly good fun!

[David Rochlin]

Cardinal Ratzinger chose the name Benedict, and although he said it was for other reasons, he could not have been unaware of the Prophecy of Malachy.   It seems to me that there is too much historical manipulation by the supposed figures named in it.  One constant in the history of the Christian Church, is the conscious effort various figures make, to fit into popular prophecies, rather than simply advance while alive, or posthumously, by merit and, God's will.

[P-N]

Cardinal Ratzinger chose the name Benedict, and although he said it was for other reasons, he could not have been unaware of the Prophecy of Malachy. 

Quite true.  There is no way he would be unaware of the Prophecies of Malachi as they have been subject to much discussion within Catholicism for centuries.  I don't know many Catholics who aren't aware of them so certainly he will have been.

The interesting thing will be if the next one choses the name Peter or not, and if so, is it to prove or disprove once and for all what the Catholic Church doesn't accept was ever written by Saint Malachi in the first place.

I don't really care either way, but it could be an interesting psychological experiment on the flock to do so. 

[MWDabbs]

Everyone probably knows my opinion of pedophiles, nazis, money launderers and the rest, all valid points -- and darn that "oral tradition" that keeps spilling over into everything.   I liked Joseph Farrell's notes -- a very in depth analysis.

The Malachi Prophecies are definitely one area of interest.  The in-fighting within the College of Cardinals is another - and we know that's been stacked over the term of this pope.  We will soon see how the latter applies to the former.

I'm keenly interested in the lightning though.  Coincidence?  Perhaps, to have lightning strike the Vatican on the same day the Pope announces he will resign, for the first time in 600 years.  To catch it on film?  Obviously, with such news there would be more cameras pointing in the direction of the Vatican.  Sort of 50-50 on that, not saying it is not real at all.  That amounts to 3 events - the camera being the least bizarre. 

Resignation - over health issues?  Or maybe he wanted to spend more time with his family?  yeah... 

As strange as it may sound though...  I am more interesting in the lightning.  And while that may sound stupid, going back a ways to say Gnostic scriptures, Jehovah or IHVH factors of one of seven archons as a sort of "rain god" - i.e. The Great Flood, etc., and so forth. 

It's that kind of omen, within the broader context of the Roman Church today (under assault from several directions including pedophilia, financial irregularities, associations with the nazis, abortion, etc., etc.,) and the world as it IS.... Plus at least some token consideration to this Pope having called for a new global financial system (like the first time in recorded history as far as I'm aware)... With the NWO... etc., etc. 

Anyway, we have three possibilities -- a) it was a completely spontaneous, natural event, purely coincidental; b) it was produced by some agency of IHVH, or c) it was man-made. 

But by all counts it is exceedingly rare and bizarre, a sort of iconic moment - epitome of omens kind of event, suffice that I'm willing to entertain all three possibilities more or less in equal proportions.  Just curious though what others think about it... perfectly normal or perfectly abnormal?  The rest... we'll see.

[David Rochlin]

I'm keenly interested in the lightning though.  Coincidence?  Perhaps, to have lightning strike the Vatican on the same day the Pope announces he will resign, for the first time in 600 years.  To catch it on film?  Obviously, with such news there would be more cameras pointing in the direction of the Vatican.  Sort of 50-50 on that, not saying it is not real at all.  That amounts to 3 events - the camera being the least bizarre. 

Resignation - over health issues?  Or maybe he wanted to spend more time with his family?  yeah... 

As strange as it may sound though...  I am more interesting in the lightning.  And while that may sound stupid, going back a ways to say Gnostic scriptures, Jehovah or IHVH factors of one of seven archons as a sort of "rain god" - i.e. The Great Flood, etc., and so forth. 

It's that kind of omen, within the broader context of the Roman Church today (under assault from several directions including pedophilia, financial irregularities, associations with the nazis, abortion, etc., etc.,) and the world as it IS.... Plus at least some token consideration to this Pope having called for a new global financial system (like the first time in recorded history as far as I'm aware)... With the NWO... etc., etc. 

Anyway, we have three possibilities -- a) it was a completely spontaneous, natural event, purely coincidental; b) it was produced by some agency of IHVH, or c) it was man-made. 

But by all counts it is exceedingly rare and bizarre, a sort of iconic moment - epitome of omens kind of event, suffice that I'm willing to entertain all three possibilities more or less in equal proportions.  Just curious though what others think about it... perfectly normal or perfectly abnormal?  The rest... we'll see.

One more possibility:
Maybe his orders were: "Next time there is a lightning storm over the Vatican, announce my resignation..."  Or maybe the depressing weather, perhaps some miserable outdoor events in his schedule, influenced his timing.

[P-N]

At the start of this news clip - a video of the lightening strike on the Vatican - just for you MW:

http://www.1tv.ru/news/world/226225

Thereafter, FEMEN doing what FEMEN do.

[fionnain]

Yes, a great topic of conversation, but all these theories are starting to sound like the 9/11 Truthers. 

How about this theory, the Pope is 85 and is in bad health and has stated that he lacks the strength and mental ability to perform his duties. 

BTW, does anyone know who really shot JFK?

Did Sirhon act alone in killing RFK

Who helped Ray flee to the UK after the MLK killing? 

Is it possible that anything can really be as it appears to be?

Yes, lighting is so rare that the Ben Franklin lighting rod invention is of no use any longer.   

Did FDR know in advance of the attack on Hawaii?

Has anyone seen Big Foot or the Loch Ness Monster lately? 

The Mayan end of the World?  How is that working out?

Will AeroSvit start flying to Atlantis after bankruptcy?

Did Armstrong really walk on the Moon?

Is Elvis really dead?

Does anyone know any members of the Illuminati?  We need some help here. 

[MWDabbs]

So, I'm asking questions and asking what others think.   So we know what you think and how you think, Fionnain.

It makes for pretty bland conversation if everyone accepts the official story and talks about the weather.  Have fun with that. 

People would stop asking questions if the evidence fully supported the so-called "official stories".  While portions of the official story are undoubtedly true, not all are.  Of course, we could have believed Nixon when he said, "I am not a crook."  We could have believed Clinton when he said, "I did not have sex with that woman".  We could believe in the idea of immaculate conception and virgin birth, or the idea of God incarnating in the form of a man in what happens to be a very interesting bloodline, or that Mary Magdalene was simply a prostitute, that the American Civil War was mainly over slavery, that we wiretap only suspected terrorists, that Iraq did have WMD's, that the BP oil spill was merely 5k bpd, or even a European Health's board decision that "Water" helps prevent dehydration.

While I do not particularly care for the Roman Catholic Church, I do recognize its importance globally, as a political-social-financial-and-religious organization.  There are some very interesting nuances applying at this time to both Catholicism and Tibetan Buddhism, relative to both the Dalai Lama and the Pope which have a broader bearing upon religion in an era where religious meaning is in extreme decline.   There are aspects of that which are simultaneously "good"/"bad" - in various subjective terms. 

Anyways, there's enough food for thought for those who do think for themselves to question matters further.     

[fionnain]

So, I'm asking questions and asking what others think.   So we know what you think and how you think, Fionnain.

It makes for pretty bland conversation if everyone accepts the official story and talks about the weather.  Have fun with that. 

People would stop asking questions if the evidence fully supported the so-called "official stories".  While portions of the official story are undoubtedly true, not all are.  Of course, we could have believed Nixon when he said, "I am not a crook."  We could have believed Clinton when he said, "I did not have sex with that woman".  We could believe in the idea of immaculate conception and virgin birth, or the idea of God incarnating in the form of a man in what happens to be a very interesting bloodline, or that Mary Magdalene was simply a prostitute, that the American Civil War was mainly over slavery, that we wiretap only suspected terrorists, that Iraq did have WMD's, that the BP oil spill was merely 5k bpd, or even a European Health's board decision that "Water" helps prevent dehydration.

While I do not particularly care for the Roman Catholic Church, I do recognize its importance globally, as a political-social-financial-and-religious organization.  There are some very interesting nuances applying at this time to both Catholicism and Tibetan Buddhism, relative to both the Dalai Lama and the Pope which have a broader bearing upon religion in an era where religious meaning is in extreme decline.   There are aspects of that which are simultaneously "good"/"bad" - in various subjective terms. 

Anyways, there's enough food for thought for those who do think for themselves to question matters further.   

Yes, and now we know what you think and how you think too Mr. Dabbs. 

Reasonable inquiry is one thing, but promoting the absurd is nothing more than a carnival side show when it comes to the wild theories bandied about.

As a lawyer, I always question things especially wild and crazy therories.  I have seen them come from both prosecutor and defence attorney alike.  Good theatre abounds in them.  Truth always seems illusive when these types of distractions obscure the view. 

I will agree that religious observance has been in decline in Western Europe and the USA, but our historical perspective is but a mere blink of the eye.  The words of Jesus however, are timeless. 

Immaculate conception, God in the form of a man, and the resurection are not theories to be proved or disproved by man.  It is part of faith and nothing more.  Believers do not live by sight, but by faith. 

As to the American War Between the States, War of Northern Aggression, or Civil War, the best explanation has to do with slavery.  Both the fear of the spread of slavery and the fear of a loss of the right to slavery created a divide that could only be bridged by .58 Cal. muzzel loading rifles and grape shot. 

Oh BTW, All the democrats, main stream media and many republicans did believe the Draft Dodger until the blue dress proved him a lier.  Before that, he went unquestioned. 

The very interesting bloodline was predicted in the Prophetic books of the Old Testament, but again a matter of faith and not sight.