Author Topic: Visa & Registration Questions - Ask Now or Forever Hold Your Peace  (Read 28889 times)

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Offline P-N

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As I am recieving about 5 PM's per day relating to Visa and Registration questions, and so as not to wear a friendship thin with the boss of the OVIR in Odessa, tomorrow I have arranged a meeting with him and the Customs & Immigration Chief and a high ranking lady within the central Zag here. 

Instead of the current "drip, drip questions and answers" to my friend, I will take a list of questions you now post and will give written answers to them all in this thread tomorrow evening/the day after tomorrow (depending on the length of the meeting and Vodka consumed  ::)).  No matter how stupid you think your question maybe, you will probably not be the only one with that question.

Yes, this is Ukraine and the answers to your questions when given, maybe effectively be nul and void within 3 months ( ::)) but they will be 100% correct as at the time of posting.

I will again, confirm the changes to the Permanent Residency registration, although for a few days now (and on the evidence of the wedding I attended today and having seen the new "Blue Card") it appears the changes I reported are indeed correct. 

I will also get some contacts in the Kyiv OVIR tomorrow (details of which I will not post for general consuption) for those that continually get the unhelpfull pencil pusher that shines their "backside" and will take completed forms but not answer questions or give advice in Kyiv.

This is you opportunity, so I would ask that you take it  :)



« Last Edit: 14:59 24-Apr-2008 by Pompey-Nik »

"When surrounded by the dark void of the willfully blind, it does not excuse those that are a spark of light their duty to shine" - Me

Offline andbod

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Hi Nik,
thank you very much for this opportunity. I have concentrated a lot of common questions in this email. If they are too much feel free to ask only the ones that you believe needs an answer. I think that these are common questions among expat wishing to get employed in Ukraine (and would help me very much) :
1) After being granted a work permit in Ukraine I have to make a IM-1 visa application. After being granted visa I have to register at local OVIR. Is that the correct procedure? Do I need to register at ZHEK as well (form n.15)?
2) One of the OVIR requirements (should be 17 documents if someone is interested I can post them) is to provide evidence of address in Ukraine.
This should be achieved with Zhek form n. 3 and a rental contract registered in Zhek. Is this information correct ? If an Ukrainian citizen (my girlfriend) wish that I stay in her apartment at no cost do I still need to provide a rental contract with 0 cost or is there another Zhek form ?
3) Is that true that once I get my IM-1 Visa I need 2 different stamp from OVIR ? One stamp indicating the permission to live in Ukraine and another letting me go in and out from Ukraine during the validity of my IM-1 Visa ?
4) At the time my IM-1 Visa/Work permit expires do I need do make the registration in OVIR again or do I just need to renew my work permit and visa ?
5) A foreigner working in Ukraine is living in Ukraine under a temporary resident status ?
6) Can a foreigner have more than one work permit (to work in different companies at the same time) or register as a private entrepreneur while working as employee in another company ?
7) Based on Cabinet of Ministers Resolution #917 from July 11, 2007 an EU,US,Japan citizen wishing to work in Ukraine and stay in the country more than 180 days in a 1yr period has to apply for a IM-1 Visa or can simply register with OVIR ?
8) The Cabinet of Ministers Instruction No. 892, dated September 12, 2005, extended work permits from one year to the tenure of employment for foreign citizens working in managerial or specialized positions in Ukraine and individuals providing services without their commercial presence in Ukraine. What is intended for specialized position ? CEO, CTO, CFO, Production control, Quality control, Technical supervision ? How an existing work permit can extended ?
« Last Edit: 15:52 24-Apr-2008 by andbod »

Offline P-N

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I will ask anything anyone wants me to ask as not everyone has the same connections I have, or have access to the top people in their Oblast as I have.  I will therefore ask all of your questions and give you the definative answers as given to me "verbatum".

It maybe that I will do this quarterly with these people (unless there is an Expat in urgent need of answers to questions we cannot answer).  My friends have already agreed to contact me with any changes in the rules so I can post to all the changes they inform me of as they happen.  :)
"When surrounded by the dark void of the willfully blind, it does not excuse those that are a spark of light their duty to shine" - Me

ecocks

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Andbod -

I was curious about two of your questions.

I am almost certain that your #1 is not right.  I know of no way to get a work permit without showing proof of your existing visa.  The university which I work at required me to submit a photocopy of mine before they could submit my work permit request. Also, the firm where I do teacher recruiting has never suggested that getting a work permit was possible without sending the employee out of the country to get the long-term visa, THEN  submitting the permit request.  Whenever possible, we try to get the people to do the visa before coming into the country so they are not on the 90 day restriction.   It is always possible this is not right I guess and maybe Nik's source can indeed verify or refute it but I don't see how they would give you a work permit unless you demonstrated that you were legally in the country for the duration of the permit.

17 documents for OVIR registration?  When I did mine it was less than half that even counting my wife's associated paperwork being added to the invitation letter, insurance payment receipt, ZHEK form and my passport.  Maybe you can post that list and my wife could look at it and see what she remembers from back when we first did that?

Offline P-N

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I have also been asked to offer the following questions:

Upon marriage because of the changes in the last 10 days, are you AUTOMATICALLY granted PERMANENT RESIDENCY STATUS or simply indefinite leave to remain in Ukraine?

Has the OVIR designated the power of Foreigner registration via marriage to the Zag.  Is the stamp confirming marriage to a Ukraine national now also the stamp for Permanent Residency Status and recognised as such by OVIR, Immigration, Customs and the Militia?

If a foreign national marries a Ukrainian national must they first have an OVIR registered address and tax ID?

If not and this individual stays via marriage, how does Ukraine ensure they pay tax?

Before marrying a Ukrainian citizen do you have to have a registered address in Ukraine and tax ID number?

If not what stops me getting of a plane, marrying a Ukraine national and disappearing from the OVIR radar when I could be a spy or terrorist?

Do those foreign nationals who have been married before the changes and already have the stamp of Ukrainian marriage automatically now have permanent resident status?

If not what status do they have as they can now stay automatically forever.

Does someone who has a stamp of marriage to a Ukraine citizen still require a work permit, business visa, private entrepreneur visa etc.etc. should they wish to work as they can now remain indefinitely?

With permanent residency they do not need these visa’s or work permits is that correct?

If permanent residency status is now automatically given via marriage, then upon marriage they do not need the visa’s and work permits?

If I am married to a Ukrainian national and we have a child, but married less than 2 years am I automatically entitled to a “Blue Card”?




 
"When surrounded by the dark void of the willfully blind, it does not excuse those that are a spark of light their duty to shine" - Me

Offline P-N

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Anymore anyone?  It does not matter to me what the question is, if it is relevant to you then it is therefore relevant, no matter how silly or trivial it may seem.  My meeting is in the late morning so I will have time to collate questions posted when I am off line before I attend.  :)
« Last Edit: 16:50 24-Apr-2008 by Pompey-Nik »
"When surrounded by the dark void of the willfully blind, it does not excuse those that are a spark of light their duty to shine" - Me

Carlusha

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Presumably, a retiree would also require a tax id?

Pension is already taxed in UK in order to finance Parliamentary Pensions and the upcoming London Olympics for which anticipated costs are now 5 times the original estimate!

Offline P-N

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Will ask for you mate.
"When surrounded by the dark void of the willfully blind, it does not excuse those that are a spark of light their duty to shine" - Me

Offline andbod

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Hi Ecoks,
well regarding the work permit I have been granted one without having any Visa in my passport. I applied for work permit during the 90 days period of my visa free travel and OVIR told me that now I have to go to Poland or another country to apply for a IM-1 visa. Later they will register me (after providing the list of documents below). I really don't know if it is the right procedure since my lawyer took care of everything. I called the Polish Consulate and they told me that to be granted the IM-1 visa they first need the Ukrainian work permit in original. Tomorrow we will know a little bit more :)

This is the list of documents required by local OVIR office (sorry it is in Ukrainian language) :
1. Заява-анкета встановленого зразка, підписана іноземним громадянином, а також з печаткою та підписом керівника підприємства, що клопоче про надання посвідки. Якщо іноземний громадянин, що клопоче про надання посвідки і є керівником підприємства, то за нього повинна клопотати інша особа, уповноважена діяти від імені підприємства.
2. Копія першої сторінки паспорта з нотаріально посвідченим перекладом.
3. Копія візи типу ІМ-І, що видається консульською установою України за кордоном на підставі Дозволу на працевлаштування і є одноразовою візою.
4. Нотаріально посвідчена копія дозволу на працевлаштування.
5. Копія особистого ідентифікаційного коду іноземця.
6. Нотаріально засвідчена копія свідоцтва про реєстрацію підприємства.
7. Нотаріально засвідчена копія довідки Управління статистики про реєстрацію підприємства як суб’єкта підприємницької діяльності.
8. Копія довідки банку про наявність рахунку.
9. Копія картки про реєстрацію підприємства в УГІРФО за місцем фактичного знаходження офісу підприємства.
10. Довідка про судимість з Міністерства внутрішніх справ України.
11. Довідки на СНІД та Туберкульоз.
12. Довідка форми №3 завірена в ЖЕК та заяви усіх членів сім’ї, що досягли 18 років про те, що вони не заперечують проти тимчасової реєстрації у їхній квартирі іноземного громадянина.
13. Договір про оренду квартири, зареєстрований у ЖЕК.
14. Копія страхового поліса (сертифікату) про надання екстреної медичної допомоги;
15. 6 чорно-білих фотокарток розміром 3*4 на матовій основі.
16. Квитанція про сплату держмита (6,12 грн.), послуг ВПР та МР(34,00 грн.).
17. Папка швидкозшивач та 4 конверти

Problem is that local Zhek doesn't even know what is it Dovidka form n. 3 and there is no way the get my rental contract registered with Zhek (I was not able to register in my own condo as well).
It is almost 4 months that I fight with the lack of information or misinformation (I'm quite habit to this since it is 3 years that I live and run business in Ukraine).

Offline P-N

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I will simply print this thread tomorrow and take it with me.  I hope I can shed some light for you Andbod (and maybe even find a copy of the form the Zhak don't know) with a fiar wind.  If I do not answer any questions straight away, it will be because my friend will want to ensure he gives me the correct information and may have to check on some issues we present him.  He like I does not want to provide any information which is not accurate as he is aware that answers he gives me get placed here.  :)
"When surrounded by the dark void of the willfully blind, it does not excuse those that are a spark of light their duty to shine" - Me

Offline andbod

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Nik I just would like to thank you again for your help!

Offline P-N

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A few other questions I have been asked to raise:

As a foreigner, if for example I have a registered address in Odessa with the OVIR and then move with my company to Kyiv do I then have to register with Kyiv OVIR and find another address or will my registration in Odessa still keep me within the law?

I am British and my wife is Russian but we got married in Kyiv and therefore have this stamp in both our national passports.  Neither of us is therefore married to a Ukrainian citizen but have this stamp.  As it will be impossible to tell when going through customs who I am married to by looking at a stamp in my passport we could stay indefinitely without being married to a Ukraine?

Does the marriage stamp simply give you unlimited leave to remain in Ukraine until you have reached qualification for the “Blue Card”  after 2 years of marriage which then gives you Permanent Residency Status?

If this is the case, are work visa and business visa’s etc. still required until receipt of the Blue Card?
"When surrounded by the dark void of the willfully blind, it does not excuse those that are a spark of light their duty to shine" - Me

ecocks

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I am thinking a Ukrainian is going to have to be an involved party somewhere in this process.

Offline P-N

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Just been asked if it is OK for the boss of the Zhek to attend  ::), when I told Anechka the womans name it turns out she knows her anyway........another one for the list of handy people  ;)
"When surrounded by the dark void of the willfully blind, it does not excuse those that are a spark of light their duty to shine" - Me

Offline P-N

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Re: Visa & Registration Questions - The Answers
« Reply #14 on: 16:16 25-Apr-2008 »
Here are your answers "verbatum".  There was one question that could not be answered today but I will get back to you when the answer is given.  As there is so much it will be split into several replies, so for the sake of continuety please do not jump in until all have been posted.

The answers are direct quotes and in itallics.

I will post the questions and then answers directly underneath to avoid confusion.

**********************************************************************************
What date did these changes take place which we are about to discuss?

9th April 2008


Can you say on who’s authority they have changed and can you give any detail on the document?

Cabinet Ministry of Ukraine – Decision 909 dated 9th April 2008
« Last Edit: 15:23 07-May-2008 by Pompey-Nik »
"When surrounded by the dark void of the willfully blind, it does not excuse those that are a spark of light their duty to shine" - Me