Author Topic: Visa & Registration Questions - Ask Now or Forever Hold Your Peace  (Read 28944 times)

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Offline P-N

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Then different worlds we must be in.  In 2.5 years I have never had a problem, buying or selling or getting permissions.  That said Odessa is Odessa and Kyiv is Kyiv and seemingly never the two shall meet in any form of business or administration  ::).  It took me all of 6 hours when last in Kyiv to deside I wouldn't consider expanding my operation there but most likely westwards towards Lviv or even into Moldova when it is time to do so.

You maybe correct with regards becoming too big an entity and attracting attention to yourself.  My business model does not attract such attention as everything is bespoke and built to order and spec of particular clients and not built with the "hope" of selling the finished article thereafter.  This way I do not run any risk of upsetting the local companies, only pleasing the clients which come to me.

It is for this reason I have turned away the opportunity to construct 2 hotels for different clients in the city, preferring to accommodate the new-rich and their associates in "suburbia".  The construction time is quicker, the buildings unique (so interest in the project is always high from my staff) and the return on capital employed is high.

Sticking with this client base has consistantly gathered a circle of friends which has political and influential momentum should I every require the system to "speed up" when I need it to.

Not everyone is as lucky as I have been in this regard I grant you....but then again is it luck or good business sense to have targetted this market in the first place?  :)

"When surrounded by the dark void of the willfully blind, it does not excuse those that are a spark of light their duty to shine" - Me

ecocks

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I see people losing their money too.

Idiots are idiots regardless of which country you go to.

Buying property has a few nuances like the restrictions on agricultural land, but it is mostly a matter of navigating the bureaucracy and finding the right pieces of paper to get signed. Every country has different rules regarding planning, zoning and such - it is no problem, just different processes. 
« Last Edit: 09:51 06-May-2008 by ecocks »

buba

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I see people losing their money too.

Idiots are idiots regardless of which country you go to.

Buying property has a few nuances like the restrictions on agricultural land, but it is mostly a matter of navigating the bureaucracy and finding the right pieces of paper to get signed. Every country has different rules regarding planning, zoning and such - it is no problem, just different processes. 

I think this is true if you want buy an appartement or a small land plot for yourself. In fact I was speaking about set up a businness in Ukraine.

For the rest I think Nik is right and he has found an intelligent way to do it  ;)

Offline SilverBullet

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Real Estate I can help you with too SB - my "core" business is construction after all and therefore I make sure I am up to speed on land and construction issues within my Oblast.  There will be small sifferences between Oblasts relating to certain "City Ordnance" but again the process is simple (once you cut through the mystique) and to be fair to Ukraine, they are trying to make it more swift at every opportunity.

When I first came, only certain "nominated" notary's could deal with land transaction within Odessa Oblast.  That changed this year and all notary's can now deal with land transactions.......the only people who will tell you it is not true is the old notary's who had the market cornered until you start to quote references to the changes at which point they will admit defeat.  :o ::)

If it would help, I can post a "beginners guide" to property/land aquisition/construction/insurance regulations/technical passports/documentation required to buy, sell, change land boundaries etc. on another thread sometime.

Will even scan the documents if necessary so you know what you should and shouldn't have, what you get from whom and where to get them if you don't have them.  :)
Nik, thanks - if you do - it will be another best seller on this board! I am still renting in Kyiv but will look for investment opportunites in a vacation home to use while visiting Ukraine. ;D
В чужо́й монасты́рь со свои́м уста́вом не хо́дят.
When in Rome, do as the Romans do.

Век живи́ — век учи́сь.
Live and learn.

Offline P-N

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Consider it done SB - will take several posts as it will probably go over the 2000 character per post limit.  I will scan some documents and remove details specific to me ( ::)) if the are required on a PM or email basis rather than put them in the public forum thus depriving others the opportunity to print and attempt to defraud some poor Babooshka somewhere in Ukraine  ::).

Hopefully they won't be needed anyway as my thread should describe the documents in sufficient detail to not require than scanned docs.  :-\
"When surrounded by the dark void of the willfully blind, it does not excuse those that are a spark of light their duty to shine" - Me

Offline matlockk

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Re: Visa & Registration Questions - The Answers
« Reply #35 on: 07:13 07-May-2008 »


Cabinet Ministry of Ukraine – Decision 990 dated 9th April 2008


Anyone have a link to this. Would be a useful document to have when crossing the border.

Offline P-N

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Seeing him today again Keith - will see if i can get a copy and scan it.  I assue it will be no problem as it is not a state secret  :-\
"When surrounded by the dark void of the willfully blind, it does not excuse those that are a spark of light their duty to shine" - Me

ecocks

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I see people losing their money too.

Idiots are idiots regardless of which country you go to.

Buying property has a few nuances like the restrictions on agricultural land, but it is mostly a matter of navigating the bureaucracy and finding the right pieces of paper to get signed. Every country has different rules regarding planning, zoning and such - it is no problem, just different processes. 

I think this is true if you want buy an appartement or a small land plot for yourself. In fact I was speaking about set up a businness in Ukraine.

For the rest I think Nik is right and he has found an intelligent way to do it  ;)

Well, when I decided to setup a small business I went to a lawyer (it took two tries to find one who actually understood I wanted it done within 12 months, but I have had bad lawyers in the states too), told them what I wanted and five weeks later, I had a company.  Not sure why it is a problem.  The bureacracy is not really much different from anywhere else.  A few different forms, the requirement to stamp documents and the cute little completion form (the Akt) and then it's learn how to make your payments to the pension/insurance/tax funds and do payroll.  Not that much different than the periodic American withholding taxes and SS payments except maybe we just mailed them instead of transferring them into an account.

Offline P-N

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Seeing him today again Keith - will see if i can get a copy and scan it.  I assue it will be no problem as it is not a state secret  :-\

Not seeing him today now - 14.30 tomorrow so hope to get a copy then Keith  :)
"When surrounded by the dark void of the willfully blind, it does not excuse those that are a spark of light their duty to shine" - Me

Offline matlockk

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Can you check it's the right decree number? I looked on their website and there is no 990 decree visible around April 9th????

buba

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Dear ecocks,

I think we dont understand each other, and for sure because of my very poor english  :-\

I was speaking about real estate businness. The problem here is not the bureaucracy. In two words locals simply wont let you do much in this field.

If you become "a problem" they can easy take your company, send you to prison or even worst. In the early 90's Kiev was a far west and the same people are still in businness.

Offline P-N

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I will double check with him no problem Keith.  Like I say if I can get a copy of it, I will scan and post also.

As stated I am with him at 1430 tomorrow so hopefully I will be able to correct or corroborate accordingly regarding the decree number if I cannot scan and post it.  :)
"When surrounded by the dark void of the willfully blind, it does not excuse those that are a spark of light their duty to shine" - Me

Offline P-N

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OK - I have an apology to make to all - the Decree number is 909 (not the 990 as I initially posted  :-[) but the origin and date of the document is correct as per the initial post at the bottom of page 1 of thread.

So it is Cabinet Minitry of Ukraine Decree 909 dated 9th April 2008 you are looking for.  It is not yet posted on the Ukrainian Government website however.

There has also been two changes, one regarding married Expats to Ukrainian nationals since my last post and another relating to Expats who own their own apartments or houses.

1.  Those married under 2 years (and therefore awaiting Permanent Residency Status) must pay health insurance to the OVIR via nominated banks.  There is no form to complete (yet at least) but your local OVIR will tell you which bank to go to.  Simply tell the cashier it is insurance for the OVIR and they will give you a receipt to return to the OVIR - the annual fee is 388 UAH.  In Odessa it is Impex Bank.

2.  There has also been a change regarding registration with the Zhek for foreign nationals who own their house or apartment in Ukraine.  Quite simply any foreign national who owns their home here, (married or not to a Ukrainian) only needs to register with the OVIR now.  If you own your own home here as a foreigner there is now no requirement for Zhek resistration.

Before you all ask which Decree and date etc. etc. he could not remember the number but will give me all the details on Monday 12th May to post here.  These changes came into force in the last few days  ::)

I do not have a copy of the Decree 909 to post, but I do have a copy of the internal instructions for the Odessa OVIR, Immigration and Customs officers which relate to the changes in Decree 909.  Being Odessa they are all written in Russian, not Ukrainian  ;).

I will scan and post them tomorrow as I need to translate all into English to post underneath for those who cannot read Russian.  In effect there will be 5 scanned pages of Russian relating to Visa and Registration changes in Decree 909 and then however many pages of English translation.  :)




"When surrounded by the dark void of the willfully blind, it does not excuse those that are a spark of light their duty to shine" - Me

Offline P-N

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For those interested - this "Guidance" document has also just been faxed to the Kyiv Post at their request, so maybe you will read it their paper too in the not to distant future.............I assume they will corroborate everything prior to publication.  (Maybe I will get a free annual subscription  :D :D :D :D :D)
« Last Edit: 17:29 08-May-2008 by Pompey-Nik »
"When surrounded by the dark void of the willfully blind, it does not excuse those that are a spark of light their duty to shine" - Me

buba

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That confirms what I was writing in a precedent post:

Marriage has nothing to do with permanent resident status.

You still have to register your adress in Ukraine (OVIR- new stamp in passeport- i can scan it if need) and pay your insurance. Without this registration stamp (other then marriage stamp) you are not free to enter in Ukraine when you want.

So nothing has changed (in my opinion of course)