Author Topic: Beginners Guide to Land/House/Apartment Purchases  (Read 8211 times)

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Offline P-N

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As requested a "Beginners Guide" to purchasing land, houses and apartments in Ukraine.  It will consist of one post for land, one or two for houses and one for apartments with reference to the house section. 

The first document you will need to accomplish any of this is your tax ID document.  It is issued by the Tax Police in your local Oblast.  This gives you (if a personal ID Number) or your company (if a company ID number) the right to buy and sell anything in Ukraine (less those specifically prohibited to foreign nationals without permanent residency such as agricultural land - it does allow you to lease such land however).

Land

You cannot buy agricultural land as a forgein national.  You also cannot buy gardening allotments as a forgeign national but you can lease both.

When you purchase land from a seller you should recieve a document showing the plot of the land in relation to surrounding plots.  What you are buying is shown as a solid block amongst other land boundries and a scaled up plot of your land individually on the same document showing the exact size to the centimeter of the dimensions of the land.  This is computer generated from the land registry department and given to you by the seller.  Both you and the seller then go to a notary with the document and they confirm all detail is correct.  The notary then signs, stamps and dates this document.

You also get two more documents at this time from the notary.  Both are on official Ukraine paper with hologram seals and unique numbers at the bottom of the document. The first document states all information about your piece of land.  Basically the system is the notary requests all information relating to the land and it's current registered owners - this should hopefully match the name of the seller  ::), if not you have a problem!  This information takes approximately 15 minutes by electonic check with the Land Registry Department in Kyiv.  Assuming the name matches that of the seller (or in the case of deceased owners documents showing proof of death and relationship of next of kin) then the official document is placed in a printer and the Kyiv information thereon and the last paragraph names the seller (and tax ID) agreeing to sell the land to you (as named on your Tax ID) and stating your Tax ID number.  It is then signed on the front, and stamped and signed on the back.  The back of the document also states that date and time (to the minute) the document was produced.  The front page will also state the full address of the plot of land and the very very long registration number of the land plot.

The second document produced there and then is on similar hologrammed paper which states that the seller (name as in passport) sells you (name as in passport) sells you (the full address and full land registry number).  There is then a full disclaimer against any will which maybe in force negating any claims from relatives upon death who were not aware of the sale.  On the reverse side of this document it continues with the disclaimer relating to any court actions etc. etc. by relatives.

The seller then signs that he has sold the land and the buyer that they have bought the land.  The notary then signs and dates and stamps this document also.  This last document is produced signed and dated and stamped twice.  One stays with you the buyer and the other is retained by the notary and forwarded to central land reigstry in Kyiv.

At this point you then pay your money - NOT before (unless you have paid a % deposite before completion).

You then take your 2 hologrammed official documents your initial document as per paragraph one (with the solid coloured land plot) to your local Land Registry Office, with your passport, Tax ID document.  They make copies of all documents.  You pay a fee and you are given another hologrammed official Ukraine document.  This one also has the Ukraine Trysub on it.  This has now only got your name on the document as owner of this plot of land, hologrammed document ID number and summerises the other documents in relation to address, plot size and location.  This is again stamped and signed on the front.  On the rear of the document is has a large drawing of your land plot, a hologrammed seal and is stamped and signed again.

The land registry will NOT retain any of the original documents as they now are proof the land is yours.

This last document mentioned, if you are the seller (not the buyer) is taken from you when you sell the land so that in effect there is only ever one official document saying someone owns that piece of land in circulation.

That is it - you now own a piece of Ukraine.






« Last Edit: 18:35 06-May-2008 by Pompey-Nik »

"When surrounded by the dark void of the willfully blind, it does not excuse those that are a spark of light their duty to shine" - Me

Offline P-N

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Re: Beginners Guide to Land/House/Apartment Purchases
« Reply #1 on: 18:26 06-May-2008 »
Buying a House

First of all, you must check the above documents for the land on which the house sits exist and are correct and in the hands of the lawful seller.

You then must be given by the seller a full technical passport.  The electrics do not form part of the passport  - just structural details walls etc.  Even if you buy a bare bones appartment from the likes of Ctikon or Berega for example, they should provide you with an appartment passport even though the appartment is brand spanking new, regardless of any other guarantees they may offer you.  Without one you will never be able to sell it on (or at least you should not be able to sell it on  ).  I would caution anyone against buying either new or second hand appartments without this document as you will never be able to sell it on afterwards unless you get one.  This document also forms part of the ownership documentation, he/she that holds the document stands much more chance of keeping the building (or appartment) in the case of disputed ownership.  It is called a technical passport or tehnicheskiy passport (sorry no cyrillics on my laptop).  It consists of a covering page showing the address, stating the fact that it is the technical passport and the name of the owner.  There is a space undernath for subsequent owners details during the selling process and places for offical stamps regarding the sale and the fact that no changes structural changes have been made to the building during that period of ownership.  It should also show the name of the indivual who made the technical passport and bare the stamp of the council of the region in which the building (or appartment) is in with supporting signatures from the author of the document that all is correct and the building is structurally sound.  The second page is a small outline of the building (or appartment) in the grounds (if applicable) in which it is situated.  Basically it shows the buildings exterior dimensions inside the plot of land.  This to is "stamped" and "signatured".  The next page (or pages) depending on how many levels the premises consist of is a detailed drawing showing all measurements, position and thickness of walls and locations of windows doors etc. etc.  It will include any partitioned (ie. plasterboard or "Gyps") walls which can be knocked down with a lump hammer in 2 minutes    There is a page for each level of the dwelling.  This to is "stamped, signatured and dated" etc. on each page.  The next section of the document is a detailed spreadsheet naming the purpose of each room, the size in metre squared.  This also is stamped but not always signatured or dated to be fair....dunno why.  The last section of the document is stamped and signed and on offical embossed paper saying who carried out the survey, the full address and the owner of the property at the time of the survey, ie company or private individual.  On the reverse of this document is another stamp stating it has been registered with the local council.  The last document relates to the registration number of the house (or appartment) and it's appropriate registration number which is given after the survey and acts as a form of receipt on sale for those who update the computer showing who owns what (to avoid disputed ownership).  This also is stamped and signed on embossed paper.

The system is there for a number of reasons - one to stop unsafe modifications by people who either pretend to know what they are doing (god knows there are many here) and to protect the legitimate buyer as only those with the technical passort (and their details thereon) will should/win in the case of disputed ownership as to have the document your ownership is registered with the local council.


« Last Edit: 18:43 06-May-2008 by Pompey-Nik »
"When surrounded by the dark void of the willfully blind, it does not excuse those that are a spark of light their duty to shine" - Me

Offline P-N

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Re: Beginners Guide to Land/House/Apartment Purchases
« Reply #2 on: 18:29 06-May-2008 »
Buying An Apartment

As per the documentation for the house relating to the technical passport only.

Hope all the above gets rid of the "mystique" the agents like to charge between $5000 and $20,000 for  ::)

One further point, for those who want "Building Insurance" without the technical passport you cannot get it.

Please note this is a beginners guide to documents you should have/recieve/part with when buying and selling.  It sounds simple (and it is) but can take upto and over a month on occasion as many sellers do not have all the documents for whatever reason.  If in doubt at any stage a good notary or lawyer will keep you straight. I would not rely under any circumstances on the advice of an agent you find in Aviso  ::)
« Last Edit: 18:47 06-May-2008 by Pompey-Nik »
"When surrounded by the dark void of the willfully blind, it does not excuse those that are a spark of light their duty to shine" - Me

Offline SilverBullet

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Re: Beginners Guide to Land/House/Apartment Purchases
« Reply #3 on: 19:43 06-May-2008 »
Nik, Thanks another best seller on this board!!! Very helpful! ;D
В чужо́й монасты́рь со свои́м уста́вом не хо́дят.
When in Rome, do as the Romans do.

Век живи́ — век учи́сь.
Live and learn.

zodoz

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Re: Beginners Guide to Land/House/Apartment Purchases
« Reply #4 on: 08:51 12-Feb-2012 »
Buying a House
Even if you buy a bare bones appartment from the likes of Ctikon or Berega for example

I noticed going rate appears around 7500-8000 uah/M2 for new apartments. Does anyone have info on price/M2 of "barebone"?

Thanks

S.

zodoz

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Re: Beginners Guide to Land/House/Apartment Purchases
« Reply #5 on: 08:55 12-Feb-2012 »
Sorry to pester. Google returned nothing on "Ctikon or Berega". Does anyone have a link they could post to these companies?

Thanks in advance.

S.

Offline P-N

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Re: Beginners Guide to Land/House/Apartment Purchases
« Reply #6 on: 11:09 12-Feb-2012 »
I wouldn't even know where to start with the prices of "shell apartments" in Kyiv. 

If it is anything like Odessa, the prices per m2 will vary depending on location.  Some places are deemed far nicer than others and that is always reflected in the price.

As for construction companies in Kyiv, the Kyiv resident forum members are better to advise you on links to websites.  Berega and Stikon are Odessa based and probably don't do much (if anything) in Kyiv as that is not their regional fiefdom to play in.  :D
"When surrounded by the dark void of the willfully blind, it does not excuse those that are a spark of light their duty to shine" - Me

Offline superbb

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Re: Beginners Guide to Land/House/Apartment Purchases
« Reply #7 on: 15:28 04-Apr-2012 »
I bought a shell apartment in Kiev from this company: http://www.kyivmiskbud.ua/

Aside from empty vodka bottles and human feces under my bathtub (from the workers I presume), everything went smoothly.

Offline Ted

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Re: Beginners Guide to Land/House/Apartment Purchases
« Reply #8 on: 16:20 04-Apr-2012 »
Aside from empty vodka bottles and human feces under my bathtub (from the workers I presume), everything went smoothly.

Roughage is always the key to a smooth operation  ;)

Tnic

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Re: Beginners Guide to Land/House/Apartment Purchases
« Reply #9 on: 08:04 07-May-2012 »
With the recent surge in the expat homestead movement I've begun to look around the internet at land plots.

I'm not familure with many of the terms and acrnyms though.

I know what a sotka is now, but I'm struggling with;
HA-hectacre?
CTS-?
Recreational land?  Can I build a home there or is it a swamp?

This the ad I'm looking at presently. 
http://www.4321.co.il/property/ad191205.aspx
No plans to buy until next Spring most likely, but if the price is right we could jump on something this Fall.

Thanks all and thank you Nick for this great thread.

Carlusha

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Re: Beginners Guide to Land/House/Apartment Purchases
« Reply #10 on: 08:17 07-May-2012 »
One "sotka" = 100 square meters

You would need about a 5th of an acre to build a basic dacha so that is about 5 to 6 sotok.

If you plan to cultivate some of the surrounding land, then perhaps 5 or more times that is necessary depending how much back-breaking effort you intend to give the project.



(Information based on our family dacha)

Tnic

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Re: Beginners Guide to Land/House/Apartment Purchases
« Reply #11 on: 08:58 07-May-2012 »
Back breaking effort?  Are you kidding me?  I'm a lazy, retired man of leisure now.   :D 

I won't have any more then some tomatoes and cucumbers and some kitchen herbs for a garden.  The rest will be perennial flowers and hopefully some grape vines and berry bushes.  A fruit tree or two would be a plus.

I'm thinking around 10 sotok should do nicely.

Carlusha

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Re: Beginners Guide to Land/House/Apartment Purchases
« Reply #12 on: 09:34 07-May-2012 »

Back breaking effort?  Are you kidding me?  I'm a lazy, retired man of leisure now.   :D 


Me too!  SWWTT won't entertain the idea of country living.  :'(   She prefers to be close to everything a city has to offer. This choice may have more to do with our ages than anything else : that's family, shops, markets, restaurants, doctors, dentists, hospitals, emergency services and , last but not least, public transport.


Offline Kord

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Re: Beginners Guide to Land/House/Apartment Purchases
« Reply #13 on: 08:57 01-Jun-2014 »
2014 update:

Some Kyiv rough numbers & info {based on some relatively new construction around Kyiv region - outside Centre} for multi-family units in mid to high rise buildings. Little bit on townhome type row houses too.

These figures vary widely based on property luxury level & location. This information is very rough estimate by a person who cannot read/speak/comprehend the local language(s) so there will be things I am overlooking that would be obvious to a local person. I will be non-specific on materials, construction techniques on purpose so as to not get overly technical based on cursory observations.

Prices for shell flats run about $80-$120/sq.ft.
Shell Townhouses around $100-$125/sq.ft.

Condo association dues {to use an American term for what this appears to be} run about 5-7 uah per square meter per month. This is basically a private Zhek department that will {supposedly (haha)} care for the property/security/street lights-etc. So, like $25-$60/ month home owner dues.

A shell flat ranges from around 550 - 700 sq. ft. for 1-room/2-room flats in new buildings.
Note: all flats are locally listed in sq. meters: 1 sq. M = 10.76 sq. ft. (just use 1:10 ratio for ease)

Brief description of "Shell Flat".
In Ukraine the term "finished" is used to describe a flat ready for move-in. Counter-intuitive to USA concept as the flat is actually more like an unfinished shell.

Floors: The floors will most likely be smooth finished cementatious material. Tile/parquee floors would be needed unless you don't mind rough cement/concrete floor.

Walls: Walls we saw were usually masonry finished with a stucco like material. This material has a thickness of approximately 2.5 cms {did not measure anything-this is from memory-fogged by wodka&piva} For installtion, stucco material is shot on to the masonry walls and then smoothed out by trowel. A major benefit of this system is it allows a lot of room for rewiring and modifications by buyers once they buy the unit. An example of this was observed in the placement of instant water heating units - wall mounted by a sub-contractor. Instead of planning the placement of pipes and wires, each water heater is roughed in within each unit. Cutting and chipping the wall material away down to brick allows for roughing in the wall mounted water heaters.

Down side: Stucco is your interior wall finish until something else is installed. Re-working the wall finish would be required unless your okay with rough surface.

Windows: Windows are usually white and pretty basic double pane insulated. There exists not much variety in typical multi-family units as far as glazing.

Ceiling: You will most likely be looking at cement/concrete ceiling. Some ceiling are rough finished by developer. That means suspended gyp. board system. Modifications would be labor intensive post finish.

Utilities: Stubs are present in their default locations {per arch. plans} unless Buyer asks for different. Otherwise modification is required depending on final floor plan lay out.

Floor plan: There is a lot to be desired from the floor plans. The term cookie cutter came to mind as I walked in clone apartment after clone apartment.

Overall architectural design of multi-family structures? Not really. Stair steps have unequal risers and treads. The space that is common space in and out of these buildings are very basic, not much different than soviet era buildings that dot the landscape in Centre. Just newer.

Financial terms: these vary widely, also you could spend as much as you want here on an apartment. A common term was 50% down + no interest for 2 years.
So, for around $20k usd down + $20k financed over 24 months a person could have a small one-room brick and mortar box in a multi-family high rise about 10 kms from nearest Metro station [very rough estimation]. This would not include much if any appliances or bathroom fixtures. A box with a door and windows. Home at last.

Factors for pricing.
If your like me and start looking even a smidgen at cost versus value you begin to wonder why these crude boxes cost so much valuable american currency. I ran through the numbers in my head (compared to US costs for general building construction):

construction labor costs: extremely low

material costs: low

admin fees: low - unless you consider what developer guy(s) is(are) taking as his(their) cut.

Land cost: now here is where we see a factor: estimated cost around $4000 per sotka. In Imperial units that means around $4 per square foot land cost (just land-no improvements)
In other words: about $175k per acre. This seems high even for outskirts of capital of a small former soviet republic member state. Must be nice to do so little for so much money.

Architectural fees: ? Not sure but they appear to spend a LOT on physical scale models and architectural computer models and renderings. Unfortunately they spend so much time drawing pretty pictures that they leave nothing in the budget for actual design of the buildings. That appears to be left to the structural engineers.

Civil/Structural fees:? Not sure but not much for civil as the road and storm sewer design is embarassing in the 21st century. Planning + permitting coordination appears that it would be little or nothing to accomplish. Structural most likely is competent but poorly paid as most multi-family structures are concrete and brick in Ukraine.

Government fees-permitting: That might be a large chunk of development budget. Black money amounts are only known by 3 people - giver/receiver and a Cyprus banker "friend". I couldn't even begin to guess what percent of a project's budget that would eat up.

If someone was ever considering purchasing a unit they should monitor construction progress prior to committing. I saw a LOT of variety in the work on site by tradesmen. There are some lemons out there that will be covered with a thick coat of paint. Buyer beware.



Offline BritKyiv

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Re: Beginners Guide to Land/House/Apartment Purchases
« Reply #14 on: 14:52 01-Jun-2014 »
'Shell Townhouses around $100-$125/sq.ft.' - NO No NO

Still far too expensive for Ukraine. You can find shell town houses
these days outside Kyiv for $35 - $75 sq ft

FFS - Americans are still the only ones to be using the old imperial system. :)
I escaped. Now in Sunny Cyprus