Advice on taking a case against the police

[Kyle]

Anyone any experience on this?  Is it worth it?  Or do they close rank? 

[Reggie]

filing a complaint against the police?

depends ... will you stay here or not?

if you do, file with NABU and post it on line also, perhaps even here.

Notify your home gov.

[Kyle]

Thanks Reggie.  I have contacted the British Embassy in Kyiv, they have put me in touch with a lawyer here in L'viv.

In short, 4 police officers forcibly bundled me in a police car, drove me to a woodland, robbed me, and dumped me in the woodland.  I was held in an arm and thumb-lock by two of the policemen throughout the whole situation.  They tried to cover my face, but were unable to.  Obviously I don't really want to let this lie, but it's done now and I don't want to cause myself more trouble than its worth.  Its not about getting the money back (about 3000 UAH), its more about those involved being held to account.

NABU is more for high level corruption, is it not?  These were 4 chancers taking advantage of a situation.

I do plan to stay here - how would that influence things in your opinion?

[Reggie]

NABU will not do anything.

You will have a hell of time even getting them to answer the phones or email.

(They do have a "media" rep. who fields the calls.). But make the report; and post here if they followed through or not.

I saw this type of thing coming here.   They have a negative attitude towards foreigners here; it lurks in the background and most often times it's a very subtle thing.

Good you reported it here.  If you get a photo of their faces; put it up here too.

Talk to a lawyer in the UK or EU; there might be something you can do there, and it is safer. 

It's a kidnapping / mugging situation; and mixed in with animus towards foreigners.   

Don't let it slide. 

Feel bad for you man.  Happy to lend you some friendly support, even if only with words.

[Kyle]

Thanks for your support Reggie.  I'm fine, I grew up in Belfast in the 70's and 80's, we've just seen the 30th anniversary of the two soldiers being beaten to death by a baying mob, I don't frighten easily.  This was just a group of wee lads taking an opportunity for some quick cash (and entertainment).  I hadn't considered that it was kidnapping, but now that you say it...

Thankfully I know my way around Lviv very well, so at no time did I ever lose track of where I was.  Had I done, I might have been a bit more frightened.  I knew it was the money they were after, foolishly in the initial incident (a dispute with a taxi driver), I let them see how much I was carrying.  When they put me in the car, I was resigned to being robbed, and I didn't take a beating at least.  It's a lesson learnt.  Despite the fact that I had called them, they told me I could go home if I paid a fine, so they were getting the cash one way or the other.  Next time, I'll take the easy way out!

I will register the complaint with NABU, and will update here too.  In the meantime, I'd advise any expats in L'viv not to seek help from the police unless it is a last resort.

[Carlusha]

Are you quite certain these animals were real police? Did you get the vehicle registration number? Anything that might id one or more of the "officers"? Any idea why they specifically targeted yourself?

In the 20 years since my first visit, I could count the number of times I have seen 4 police in one car on just one finger!

Agree totally with Reggie's last post.

PS Added :  Oh man! I am also from Belfast though the family moved to London when I was a youngster

[Kyle]

I'd say 95% they were policemen - this all started at the main police station in the city centre, it was from outside the front of the station that I was abducted.

Yes, you don't see four together very often, but one to drive, one to hold each arm up my back, and one in the front who wanted a share of the cash.

In the middle of all this, the car got stuck in the snow, and they had to get out and push it lol!  It took the edge off their air of dominance, and I enjoyed telling them they were the worst gangsters I'd ever encountered.

I didn't get the car reg, I tried but they sped off.  Unfortunately my phone battery died in the middle of it all.  But one of them was called Orest, another may have been called Maryan, but I would have no problem identifying them.  This all started inside the police station, I got a good look at them all in clear light, especially the two in the back with me.  I was targeted because they knew I was carrying 3000 UAH in cash, simple as that.

[Ted]

Report to the local newspaper also or local news, tv station if there is one. Post it on FaceBook and in the expat FB page too.

[Reggie]

Kyle, put as much info here about it.  Including photos of the police station (can be from Google maps or street view).  And we can help you organize the complaint.   You should also have it in 2 column format: English and Ukrainian.

How did they approach you?

Time of day?

Anybody was with you?

Anybody else saw what happened?

How long had you been there?

How long have you been in Ukraine?

[concur]

Report to the local newspaper also or local news, tv station if there is one. Post it on FaceBook and in the expat FB page too.

Kyle!
Post it on NPU's FB page and on their twitter handle too.

May be you already tried, they've 2 contact number on their website to get qualified help and advice:

0-800-50-02-02, (044) 254-91-02

[K24]

Of course very sad indeed that this happened.  But at the same time very strange.  3000 UAH is about 100 USD.  Divided by 4 people that is 25 USD. To incur all the risks for 25 USD per person seems very strange even for Ukrainian standards.   

[Ted]

Of course very sad indeed that this happened.  But at the same time very strange.  3000 UAH is about 100 USD.  Divided by 4 people that is 25 USD. To incur all the risks for 25 USD per person seems very strange even for Ukrainian standards.

They have standards?
When it comes to money they have no standards, other than "How can I get it into my pocket".

[Reggie]

But at the same time very strange. 

To incur all the risks for 25 USD per person 

1.  Not very strange: before Maidan this was happening all the time (at least we heard about it -- I remember a Japanese man in particular mugged by the cops right in downtown Kyiv; they pulled him into a side street.).

2.  Again not strange, because there is the "YOU are the foreigner ... THIS is UKRAINE" attitude; which basically means 'We do as we want ... we don't recognize your rights ... we make the law.'

3.  What risk?  Risk assumes their buddies in the police station or NABU or prosecutor's office or courts will give a damn.  Look at all the protection they have for this act from the many levels of indifference.   

[Pantherdk]

I also think it sounds strange.
I also have had my encounters with police here, Kyiv, Kharkiv, Poltava, Kremenchug, Various checkpoints

They never tried to get Money from me when i did not do anything wrong, and last 2 years i not paid any bribes because i just refused and stand my ground (only 2 times)
When i was in 2 accidents last year 1 my fault and 1 not my fault, they even call the main station to get a senior that spoke English even while my wife was there and could translate.
Second time when it was my fault the police a Young guy helped settle the case on the spot with the other part, and just walked away after so i had to drive to him and stop to give hime som coffe Money (he saved med 125 USD in damages)

But if the case is at described I would also persue it, make as much noise as possible about it and hope for some justice

[Reggie]

Thanks Reggie.  I have contacted the British Embassy in Kyiv,

@ Kyle

Contact me directly if you need help. 

Ignore bulls-t comments that express disbelief that this happened (it happens on every thread).

Get in touch with me; I'll help you where I can.