Author Topic: Israel Flew F35 Fighters Over Iran  (Read 899 times)

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Offline David Rochlin

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Israel Flew F35 Fighters Over Iran
« on: 15:16 31-Mar-2018 »
This is important, because Russia has deployed S-300 Air defense systems in Iran and on the way to Iran Israeli F35 fighters would have overflown Syria where Russia has S-400 deployed, the latest Air defense equipment Russia has. 
It could be that Russia might refuse to report Israeli airspace incursions over Syria now, because Israel took out half of Syria's SAM launchers recently, when SAM missiles were launched against Israeli aircraft (not F35.)
Clearly, though, this shows S-300 Air defence systems deployed in Iran and similar in China, are garbage.  But, the vaunted S-400 might not work against American F-35 stealth technology, either.
http://www.businessinsider.com/israel-f-35s-already-operating-over-iran-syria-report-2018-3

« Last Edit: 20:44 31-Mar-2018 by Fraucha »


Offline Reggie

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Re: Israel Flied F35 Fighters Over Iran
« Reply #1 on: 15:23 31-Mar-2018 »
Fake news.

No F-35 fighter jets over Iran.


"Two Israeli Air Force (IAF) F-35 stealth fighters flew over Syrian and Iraqi airspace to reach Iran, report says. Most probably, just fake news"

Read more at https://theaviationist.com/2018/03/29/heres-why-the-claim-that-two-israeli-f-35-stealth-jets-entered-iranian-airspace-does-not-make-any-sense/#JLZGrPABL0ktKxfW.99
« Last Edit: 15:26 31-Mar-2018 by Reggie »
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Tnic

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Re: Israel Flied F35 Fighters Over Iran
« Reply #2 on: 17:06 31-Mar-2018 »
I dunno Reg.  It might not be all that far fetched seeing as how they dun it before.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/june/7/newsid_3014000/3014623.stm

Offline Reggie

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Re: Israel Flied F35 Fighters Over Iran
« Reply #3 on: 18:17 31-Mar-2018 »
I dunno Reg.  It might not be all that far fetched seeing as how they dun it before.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/june/7/newsid_3014000/3014623.stm

I know the Israelis took out Iraq's research facilities.

I know about this subject: If we were in Vegas, I'd make you a whole bunch of money if you put your chips down on "it didn't happen."

For starters: the topography of Iran completely different to Iraq.   

Iran's nuclear (military) sites miles under mountainous rock; it would even be a challenge for our forces in the Persian Gulf.



Osirak (in Iraq) was out in the open: A quick hit and run.



The news also originated out of a Kuwaiti propaganda site:

"The Jerusalem Post has just published an article, that is slowly spreading through the social media, about an alleged IAF F-35 mission into the Iranian airspace originally reported by the Kuwaiti Al-Jarida newspaper."

There's also almost zero possibility our people would sign off on such a risk: Aerial intelligence can be accomplished with less risky methods and there's an unacceptable risk Iran would close down the Straits of Hormuz (even for 10 minutes would send a shock through world energy markets).  Even the Israelis would not be dumb enough to risk their new F-35s for a simple reconnaissance mission over Iran (they only have the 7-9 of them so far).

There is so much hoky-poky in this story that nobody believes it.  Nobody jumped on this as a real news story.

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Offline David Rochlin

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Re: Israel Flied F35 Fighters Over Iran
« Reply #4 on: 20:02 31-Mar-2018 »
There is no possibility that Israel is going to attack Iran's nuclear facilities.  Israel has a few of the better bunker busters purchased from the U.S., but It would require whatever they have and probably most of what the U.S. has in inventory, to do much of anything to Iran's nuclear program which is diversified into something like three difficult to penetrate systems of underground bunkers.  The U.S. and Israel would have to work together on a prolonged bombing campaign to have a chance of destroying some installations without using nukes.  To me, the significant issue is whether Russia's S-300 and S-400 systems are junk.  As far as I know, Russia has only used them to detect non-stealth aircraft in real world conditions.  Even if Russian technology is not a fraud, it is possible that the systems break down too much to be practical or effective.  When Israel flew over Syria before, it is not clear that Russia detected even F-16s and F-18s with the S-400.  It is clear that Russia failed to stop American air support during the recent attack on the oilfield that killed 300 Russian Mercs.   There are a lot of reasons to question whether Russian air defenses work.   It is in the interests of America to try to avoid exposing Russian air defense as not very good.   But, for Israel it may be better to demonstrate Russian systems are crap and reduce confidence of Syrian and Iranian militaries in their vaunted, expensive Russian air defenses.
« Last Edit: 20:13 31-Mar-2018 by David Rochlin »

Offline Reggie

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Re: Israel Flied F35 Fighters Over Iran
« Reply #5 on: 20:23 31-Mar-2018 »
There is no possibility that Israel is going to attack Iran's nuclear facilities.  Israel has a few of the better bunker busters purchased from the U.S., but It would require whatever they have and probably most of what the U.S. has in inventory, to do much of anything to Iran's nuclear program which is diversified into something like three difficult to penetrate systems of underground bunkers.  The U.S. and Israel would have to work together on a prolonged bombing campaign to have a chance of destroying some installations without using nukes.

A million +1 reasons.   

If there was an all-out war, of course, anything is possible.  But even the risk of an all-out war is remote.  And the relationship may not even be what many assume it is on the surface.   

According to most sources, the two countries presently (today) are engaged in [1] a war of rhetoric, [2] proxy army skirmishes: Hezbollah and whomever the Israelis use, sometimes the Kurds, sometimes the Azerbaijanis, [3] drone incursions. 

During the Iran/Iraq war, Israel also supplied arms to Iran.  Perhaps strange, but true.  So there's been more to the relationship depending on political needs: https://www.wrmea.org/1986-november/israeli-arms-sales-to-iran.html

It would also be the worst way of trying to curtail the Mullahs, as the Iranian people already hate them.

Just to stick to this story; if Israel sent 2 F-35s to fly 2,500-3000 Km away over Iran, there would be major reactions of all sorts; world media, stock markets, political parties in several countries, etc.   Israel just got about 9 of these planes and the last thing anyone with any sense on the Israeli side would say is 'Let's fly them over Iran.'  (That's what satellites and drones are for.).

And Kuwaiti news sources are ... well ... you know.  A Kuwaiti journalist is like a Ukrainian anti-corruption specialist. 

The other point I forgot to mention is that the Iranians already hacked into, and landed (not crash landed), one of our RQ-170 stealth drones.  Obama publicly asked for it back - it's confirmed. The Iranians are building replicas now.  That means you are not dealing with an enemy that has zero capabilities.  There are risks even when flying 'stealth' missions.  The Israelis are aware there are risks; and I don't think they would undertake those risks for something like this.



* The helicopter behind the RQ-170, might look familiar.  It's a replica of our own (now outdated) Cobra attack chopper. 

« Last Edit: 23:49 31-Mar-2018 by Reggie »
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Carlusha

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Re: Israel Flied F35 Fighters Over Iran
« Reply #6 on: 08:30 01-Apr-2018 »

Just to stick to this story; if Israel sent 2 F-35s to fly 2,500-3000 Km away over Iran, there would be major reactions of all sorts; world media, stock markets, political parties in several countries, etc.
   

The greatest reaction would probably be shock and awe! If one of the F-35s did manage the 2,500-3,000 km trip, it would have to be left there for, as I understand it, these beauties are meant to be deployed close by to the action!

Here in cash-strapped Blighty, we love them and have borrowed oodles to order 17 of these beauties. From my favourite techie site, The Register, that I read every day, hence my recalling this article :

HMS Queen Elizabeth, Britain's new 65,000-tonne aircraft carrier, will be capable of carrying around 36 F-35s, though she will routinely deploy with just 12 jets aboard. The US Marine Corps will supply what is thought to be half a dozen F-35Bs for the British ship's maiden deployment, which will see her touring the South China Sea in late 2020.

El Reg - The Register

Mind you, please correct me if I am short/wide of the mark.

« Last Edit: 08:31 01-Apr-2018 by Дідусь »

Offline sosednik

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Re: Israel Flew F35 Fighters Over Iran
« Reply #7 on: 11:21 01-Apr-2018 »
Some perspectives:

1.  I think Didus' is on to something:  the most direct routes to the places supposedly visited by IAF F-35s cover distances from about 1500 to 2100 km.  The F-35I internal-fuel combat radius is about 1100 km.  IAF is planning to develop external fuel tanks which would presumably preserve the low radar cross-section (about 15 square cm), but that project is likely to take a while to complete.  Aerial refueling would need to be done over the friendly skies of Syria or Iraq, by decidedly un-stealthy KC-130 tankers.

For the Osirak raid, IAF was able to extend the range of its F-16As, using techniques which have never been officially disclosed.  [They likely included removal of equipment not needed for the mission, and selection of an unusually low altitude.]  However, it seems to me that the percentage improvement needed was much smaller, than would be needed for the claimed F-35 missions.

2.  If the purpose of the flights was reconnaissance, IAF has UAVs (drones) with ranges sufficient to easily reach any corner of Iran.

3.  The dreaded Russian S-400 started development a few years before the end of the Soviet Union, and was finally approved for service about 10 years ago.  It is not exactly brand-new technology, though it has surely received numerous updates.

The S-400 has a bunch of big bad-ass missiles, any one of which could ruin your whole day.  That's why low-observables tech (stealth) is so valuable.  It's quite plausible that an F-35 could fly directly over an S-400 radar installation without detection, in which case those nasty missiles wouldn't make much of a difference.

Since 1942, US air forces have been INTENSELY concerned about countering anti-aircraft systems.  The S-400 is exactly the kind of system the Pentagon has been designing its aircraft to penetrate for 30 years or more.  If the American boffins have been doing their job adequately, then the S-400 can be defeated.

Offline sosednik

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Re: Israel Flew F35 Fighters Over Iran
« Reply #8 on: 19:10 02-Apr-2018 »
I read an article on a military affairs site, explaining why the S-400 matters to the US Department of Defense.

As I explained above, it's not much of a concern for the latest generation of fighter and bomber aircraft, which are nearly invisible to air defense radar.

But ground forces depend a lot on all kinds of air support, which is provided by aircraft that don't have low-observables technology.  Analysts have estimated that if war broke out between the US and Russia (for example, an American defense of a NATO ally in Europe), it would take about 10 days to degrade Russia's air defense systems sufficiently to allow the aircraft needed by ground troops, to do their jobs.

Offline Ted

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