Slavery in Poland

[Fillou]

Just came back from Poland, many industries "hire" Ukrainians while taking advantage of the 3 month visa free system.
The example I witnessed : 4 euros / hour, 12 hours a day (with only a 15 min break) and 6 or even 7 days a week.
Now I understand why the Polish business community has such a profound interest in Ukrainian expats.

[julienp]

Just came back from Poland, many industries "hire" Ukrainians while taking advantage of the 3 month visa free system.
The example I witnessed : 4 euros / hour, 12 hours a day (with only a 15 min break) and 6 or even 7 days a week.
Now I understand why the Polish business community has such a profound interest in Ukrainian expats.

And that's 4 times the average salary of Kyiv (and without any taxes/charges as it's undeclared work)
So no surprise Ukrainians are doing it... They can work hard for 3 months and earn a year worth of Ukrainian salary

PS : if you account for the cost of living, the benefits are much reduced... but still better than at home

[AkMike]

It's hardly slavery because the employment can be stopped.
 Fair employment? Hardly but not slavery.
 Ukrainains are not owned like  a slaves were.

[Pantherdk]

Just came back from Poland, many industries "hire" Ukrainians while taking advantage of the 3 month visa free system.
The example I witnessed : 4 euros / hour, 12 hours a day (with only a 15 min break) and 6 or even 7 days a week.
Now I understand why the Polish business community has such a profound interest in Ukrainian expats.

And that's 4 times the average salary of Kyiv (and without any taxes/charges as it's undeclared work)
So no surprise Ukrainians are doing it... They can work hard for 3 months and earn a year worth of Ukrainian salary

PS : if you account for the cost of living, the benefits are much reduced... but still better than at home

The average salery in Kiev is around 10.000 UAH or 330 USD so 4 Euro is not 4x the average salery.
Brickworkers in Kiev get a pretty good salery at the moment ofc. not 4 EUR an hour but should be able to get 50 UAH atm.

This illegal Work will only Work until the unions and the police start to strike Down on it.
Ukranians WHO take these jobs must be not very wellinformed, because there is infact alot of Visa posibilitys for Builders, Farmworkers in poland, bulgaria and the rest of europe.

[Ted]

Just came back from Poland, many industries "hire" Ukrainians while taking advantage of the 3 month visa free system.
The example I witnessed : 4 euros / hour, 12 hours a day (with only a 15 min break) and 6 or even 7 days a week.
Now I understand why the Polish business community has such a profound interest in Ukrainian expats.

And that's 4 times the average salary of Kyiv (and without any taxes/charges as it's undeclared work)
So no surprise Ukrainians are doing it... They can work hard for 3 months and earn a year worth of Ukrainian salary

PS : if you account for the cost of living, the benefits are much reduced... but still better than at home

The average salery in Kiev is around 10.000 UAH or 330 USD so 4 Euro is not 4x the average salery.
Brickworkers in Kiev get a pretty good salery at the moment ofc. not 4 EUR an hour but should be able to get 50 UAH atm.

This illegal Work will only Work until the unions and the police start to strike Down on it.
Ukranians WHO take these jobs must be not very wellinformed, because there is infact alot of Visa posibilitys for Builders, Farmworkers in poland, bulgaria and the rest of europe.

Kyiv is not the center of the universe, it is not where the workers are coming from. Use your head.

[Pantherdk]

There was talked about wrong average salery in Kiev.

Yes i know Kiev is not centrum of ukraine or the World.
What is it in my post you dont like  ?

[David Rochlin]

Stats on average salary in Kyiv:
https://tradingeconomics.com/ukraine/wages

[Ted]

Stats on average salary in Kyiv:
https://tradingeconomics.com/ukraine/wages

Average across all of Ukraine not just Kyiv would be "an all time high of 9141 UAH/Month in June of 2018" or 277.55 Euros per month based on today's exchange rate.

4 euros an hour x 12 = 48 euros a day x 5 days = 240euros x 4.3 weeks = 1032euros a month (33,967UAH)  a hell of a lot more than the above 277.5 which means the potential or theoretical salary in Poland is 3.71 times more than Ukraine. Under the table and no tax.

Correct??

[Darren Jones]

Stats on average salary in Kyiv:
https://tradingeconomics.com/ukraine/wages

Average across all of Ukraine not just Kyiv would be "an all time high of 9141 UAH/Month in June of 2018" or 277.55 Euros per month based on today's exchange rate.

4 euros an hour x 12 = 48 euros a day x 5 days = 240euros x 4.3 weeks = 1032euros a month (33,967UAH)  a hell of a lot more than the above 277.5 which means the potential or theoretical salary in Poland is 3.71 times more than Ukraine. Under the table and no tax.

Correct??

Take that average with a Babushka size pinch of  salt.

In the manufacturing industry you pay only a % of the true salary, normally minimum wage to the lowest paid and then the higher paid 40-50uah more than  minimum wage per day. Then  the balance of their true salary in cash.

Put it into perspective when I came over here the factory I ran had 30 employees, 12 on cash 180uah per day, 7 on minimum  wage (at the time I think 120uah per day) who were getting paid 80uah more per day in cash. Then 8 machine operators on 200uah per day officially with 150uah per day extra in cash 3 Managers on 220uah per day but getting 280uah per day cash.

So all 30 employees official salary per day -  3107uah
non official salary per day  - 4760uah

At the time to show all workers as official on true salary it was about $3-4000 extra tax to pay and this company as a sinking ship but once I did this and suddenly  everyone was working for a pension quality  control and mood changed overnight.

Now this company was balancing well, many companies I did business  with had there full workforce on minimum wage officially    

Yes there are many companies employing people on minimum salary but I would estimate the average monthly salary officially for a director is $500...his pay back on the land cruiser is double that!

[julienp]

The average salery in Kiev is around 10.000 UAH or 330 USD so 4 Euro is not 4x the average salery.
Brickworkers in Kiev get a pretty good salery at the moment ofc. not 4 EUR an hour but should be able to get 50 UAH atm.

Does it matter if it's 4 times or 1.5 or 2.7 times higher salary ? It is higher enough to motivate Ukrainians to go there.
If they go on a 3 months slavery trip and come back again & again, it would be quit masochist...

This illegal Work will only Work until the unions and the police start to strike Down on it.
Ukranians WHO take these jobs must be not very wellinformed, because there is infact alot of Visa posibilitys for Builders, Farmworkers in poland, bulgaria and the rest of europe.

First, some do use visas. I have a handful of friends/acquaintances who work in Poland/Germany and all use visa... But nearly all used the 3 months visa-free as probation period before the company made the effort to do their visa.
And will police really crack-down on the visa-free "workers" when there are shortage of labours ?
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-04-05/poland-in-labor-bind-so-bad-it-can-t-staff-job-placement-offices

Now I understand why the Polish business community has such a profound interest in Ukrainian expats.

Maybe it's more nuanced than just "it's slavery"

[kyivkpic]

There is actual slavery in Russia.

[Kord]

Just came back from Poland, many industries "hire" Ukrainians while taking advantage of the 3 month visa free system.
The example I witnessed : 4 euros / hour, 12 hours a day (with only a 15 min break) and 6 or even 7 days a week.
Now I understand why the Polish business community has such a profound interest in Ukrainian expats.

Sure, Ukrainians want to go and work in a "friendly" country and make more money than back home. Basically the same as Mexicans do in USA but Ukrainians are not illegally living and working in Poland.

https://financialobserver.eu/poland/a-new-wave-of-ukrainian-migration-to-poland/

[Danno99]

I know a guy who goes to Poland and works for a company driving a truck. He drives for 3 months at a time.
 I think he is living in that truck for 3 months. 

[kyivkpic]

I know a guy who goes to Poland and works for a company driving a truck. He drives for 3 months at a time.
 I think he is living in that truck for 3 months. 

Maybe it has a sleeper cab? Many truck drivers sleep in their rigs.

[Danno99]

I know a guy who goes to Poland and works for a company driving a truck. He drives for 3 months at a time.
 I think he is living in that truck for 3 months. 

Maybe it has a sleeper cab? Many truck drivers sleep in their rigs.

Yeah that is assumed but 3 months alone in a truck is a bit much.