Author Topic: Foreign travel with our daughter against my wishes?  (Read 797 times)

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Offline westring

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Let?s pretend that I have a wife in the Ukraine and we have an 8 year old daughter. They live in the Ukraine and I have never lived there. We have been separated since the birth.

Let?s pretend that my estranged wife has partnered up with another ex of mine in Germany and wants to go visit her. They enjoy talking trash about me and I still get nasty messages from them both.

Now that Marshall law has been declared in the Ukraine, Ukrainian wife decides she wants to take our daughter with her to Germany (both with Ukrainian passports) next week. The Ukrainian wife hasn?t asked for my permission to travel into the Schengen zone, and the daughter has her last name.

I don?t know if her Schengen entry point is in Germany or Poland, or wherever. I?m not ok with her taking our daughter and fleeing the Ukraine like this. How would I be able to prevent this - assuming any of this were true? Anonymously would be the best way...


Offline AkMike

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Re: Foreign travel with our daughter against my wishes?
« Reply #1 on: 21:13 26-Nov-2018 »
Lets' pretend,,  Get real and stop pretending.

 The Martial Law doesn't affect anyone now. It's only set for 30 days and could only affect the areas on the border of Mordor.
Why would you want to stop them from travel? Just because your 'pretend' feelings might get hurt from the ex's talking about you?

What pretend right do you have to stop this?  Have you been paying support for this child for 8 years?

And finally.... Accomplish this "Anonymously"???   Are you serious?   :D
« Last Edit: 21:22 26-Nov-2018 by AkMike »
In Russia we only had two TV channels. Channel One was propaganda. Channel Two consisted of a KGB officer telling you: Turn back at once to Channel One. Yakov Smirnoff

Online David Rochlin

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Re: Foreign travel with our daughter against my wishes?
« Reply #2 on: 00:10 27-Nov-2018 »
Maybe child support ordered by a German court would be more expensive

Offline westring

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Re: Foreign travel with our daughter against my wishes?
« Reply #3 on: 05:27 27-Nov-2018 »
No, I've been paying child support the entire time - yet she still refuses to let me speak with our daughter or  send me pics/videos. And I get threat of physical violence when I say I want to come visit personally. I've asked to have some holidays with our daughter (spend them in the Ukraine) and also get threats. But that's another subject.

I understand that the Marshall is only for 30 days and doesn't affect travel from the Ukraine. But I thought it might seem like a motivation for someone to want to leave the Ukraine and stay somewhere else.

For the question about "what right" do I have to stop this? It's my right as a parent. For parents with kids living in the Schengen area, both parents must consent to travel in/out of the Schengen area. I don't consent to her taking our daughter on this trip, and I'm asking how to formally state that, if there is such a way for the Schengen area.

So whether anonymously or not: is there a way/place where I can specifically say that I do NOT give my consent for our daughter to travel to/from the Schengen area?

Online David Rochlin

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Re: Foreign travel with our daughter against my wishes?
« Reply #4 on: 08:18 27-Nov-2018 »
If you want visitation, your chances of court ordered visitation are much better in Germany, aren't they?

Offline UKUA

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Re: Foreign travel with our daughter against my wishes?
« Reply #5 on: 11:16 27-Nov-2018 »
I was of the belief that for minors, Ukraine insists on the parent taking the child over the border would be in possession of your written permission that you consent to this. If I am correct, then obviously, should your ex, should she go this route, may have suspicious papers OR the special permission of the courts.


From the net:

In the absence of the permission of one of the parents, the child?s leaving Ukraine may be allowed on the basis of a court decision.

The statement of claim for permission to leave without the agreement and accompaniment of one of the parents is filed in civil proceedings in a local court at a registered place of residence or stay of the defendant.

and

Ukrainian mothers no longer need permits from fathers for short trips

Previously kids travelling with the mother or the father had to have a written permission to leave the country from the second parent. This is no longer necessary. One guardian can take the child overseas without a written document signed by the second parent, if they leave the country for a short period of time.

However, the new rules require the guardian to inform the second parent in writing via registered mail about the forthcoming trip and its particulars. Such information should include the purpose of the visit, the place where the child is going and for how long.

The guardian also has to provide court orders regarding residency of the child and return tickets on the border, Finance.ua reported.

The written permission is not necessary if the child is leaving Ukraine for no longer than for 1 month. Permission to leave temporarily is also unnecessary if the second parent hasn?t paid child support for 4 months. In cases where the child is seriously ill, 3-month debt of alimony allows the mother to get a waiver.

Online Fraucha

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Re: Foreign travel with our daughter against my wishes?
« Reply #6 on: 12:07 27-Nov-2018 »

However, the new rules require the guardian to inform the second parent in writing via registered mail about the forthcoming trip and its particulars. Such information should include the purpose of the visit, the place where the child is going and for how long.

Yeah and UkrPost is not exactly a fast delivery system add a signature to that and the vacation will be over before the letter gets delivered.
Peace is the failure of the military to convince the government that it can and should kick its enemies ass.

Offline kyivkpic

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Re: Foreign travel with our daughter against my wishes?
« Reply #7 on: 12:17 27-Nov-2018 »
I?m not ok with her taking our daughter and fleeing the Ukraine

What the Frak is wrong with you? Listen, I had a illegitimate child that I never saw until she was 17. I paid support but guess what... if you aren't around, you have no rights and you don't sound like you care about the child. This is just spite. Do you have any idea how horrible of a place Ukraine is to raise a child?  Grow the Frak up.
Твоя голова всегда в ответе за то, куда сядет твой зад.

Offline AkMike

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Re: Foreign travel with our daughter against my wishes?
« Reply #8 on: 15:12 27-Nov-2018 »
If there were truely threats against you You can easliy hire body guards and go thru the courts to get visitations.  But instead you've allowed her to make you kow-tow to her wishes. Grow a set! Be a parent and not just a sperm donor.

Or is that too hard to "PRETEND" to do?
In Russia we only had two TV channels. Channel One was propaganda. Channel Two consisted of a KGB officer telling you: Turn back at once to Channel One. Yakov Smirnoff

Offline westring

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Re: Foreign travel with our daughter against my wishes?
« Reply #9 on: 18:24 27-Nov-2018 »
Thanks for the concrete advice and suggestions!

I also pretty much the same info online about her being able to leave the Ukraine: she can take our daughter out of the country because I am listed as a foreign father on the birth certificate. So far, so good. So I'm looking now at where I can lodge a complaint/objection to the Schengen countries so that she gets denied at the entry point. There is a Schengen Infomation Service (SIS) which lists that kind of stuff. I just don't know what it takes to get that on there.

To be clear: I don't care what the mother does, as long as our daughter is ok. The mother can go where she wants and talk trash about whoever she wants - doesn't bother me. I'm just not ok with her taking our daughter out of school for weeks and taking her along for this. It's my right as a parent to make that judgement.

As for the issue of contact to my daughter: I accept that her mother is purposefully trying to keep me away and that I may not see her until she's older. It sucks, but I can accept that this is the reality.

Offline westring

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Re: Foreign travel with our daughter against my wishes?
« Reply #10 on: 18:38 27-Nov-2018 »
If you want visitation, your chances of court ordered visitation are much better in Germany, aren't they?

Unfortunately not. The German court has no jurisdiction over how I could exercise visitation rights in the Ukraine.



If there were truely threats against you You can easliy hire body guards and go thru the courts to get visitations.  But instead you've allowed her to make you kow-tow to her wishes. Grow a set! Be a parent and not just a sperm donor.

Hire body guards? You're suggesting that I respond to her threats with even larger threats of aggression? Can you imagine how nice and relaxed that would be when I go pick up my daughter? This is not Hollywood, and it's also not an expense most people can afford. But if I misunderstood you and you're willing to pay for a bodyguard so that I can see my daughter, then please PM me.


What the Frak is wrong with you? Listen, I had a illegitimate child that I never saw until she was 17. I paid support but guess what... if you aren't around, you have no rights and you don't sound like you care about the child. This is just spite. Do you have any idea how horrible of a place Ukraine is to raise a child?  Grow the Frak up.

You're quick to judge that I don't care about the child, and seem to have missed when I wrote that I ask for visits & contact, pictures/videos.

I find particularly interesting some of the judgements being made about my character by people who neither know me, nor know the entire situation. First there was the assumption that I was motivated by not paying child support, which i explained that I pay fully). Then you assume it's out of spite. Please read what I wrote more exactly and then think about what it means before you spout nonsense. And if you have no helpful suggestions, then please take your boorish behaviour somewhere else.

Offline AkMike

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Re: Foreign travel with our daughter against my wishes?
« Reply #11 on: 19:19 27-Nov-2018 »
Have you been a duck all your life?   (Look for typo)


 A body guard is to protect you hind end not to threaten. Labor is cheap here probably similar to Mexico so it's not a huge expense considering that there is YOUR child involved.
In Russia we only had two TV channels. Channel One was propaganda. Channel Two consisted of a KGB officer telling you: Turn back at once to Channel One. Yakov Smirnoff

Offline AkMike

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Re: Foreign travel with our daughter against my wishes?
« Reply #12 on: 19:44 27-Nov-2018 »
No, I've been paying child support the entire time
Yet earlier you said,

Since then, my wife has refused to let me see our daughter. This also means that I haven't been able to pay her any child support, since it was always done in person, in cash.

 This is 2 different stories. Only 1 is truthful. Either you have been making payments all the time or you stopped because she refused to let you continue seeing the child.

 You also said that you've been seperated since birth. You mean you've never seen the child since then? Never?
In Russia we only had two TV channels. Channel One was propaganda. Channel Two consisted of a KGB officer telling you: Turn back at once to Channel One. Yakov Smirnoff

Offline AkMike

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Re: Foreign travel with our daughter against my wishes?
« Reply #13 on: 19:59 27-Nov-2018 »
Since this a basicly a repeat of the Jan/18 thread in which you were given advice to hire a lawyer and it appears that it wasn't done at this point.

It must not be that big of a priority.

" Let's PRETEND"that this thread is locked.
In Russia we only had two TV channels. Channel One was propaganda. Channel Two consisted of a KGB officer telling you: Turn back at once to Channel One. Yakov Smirnoff