Author Topic: Ukrainian Orthodox vs Russian  (Read 963 times)

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Online Fraucha

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Ukrainian Orthodox vs Russian
« on: 08:28 18-Dec-2018 »
https://www.rferl.org/a/us-ukraine-new-orthodox-church/29662147.html


U.S. Congratulates New Ukrainian Orthodox Church, Amid Russian Anger
December 18, 2018 04:49 GMT
By RFE/RL
 

The United States has congratulated Ukraine's new national Orthodox Church on its autonomy from Russia, a move that has incensed Moscow and further heightened tensions between Russia and Ukraine.

In a statement on December 17, the U.S. State Department said it sent its congratulations to the new church's leader, Metropolitan Epifaniy, calling it "a historic moment for Ukraine."

"The United States maintains unwavering support for Ukraine and respects the freedom to worship unhindered by outside interference," State Department spokesman Robert Palladino said in a statement.

"The right to religious freedom extends to all Ukrainians, including those choosing to join -- or not to join -- the new Orthodox Church," he said.

For years, there have been three main rival Orthodox Churches in Ukraine, the largest being the Moscow Patriarchate, which is formally Ukrainian but answers to Moscow.

Ukrainian Orthodox leaders on December 15 agreed on the creation of a new national Orthodox Church and elected the 39-year-old Epifaniy to head it.

The Patriarchate of Constantinople-- the Istanbul-based institution that is often considered the spiritual headquarters for Orthodox Christianity-- is expected to hand over a formal decree granting independence -- known as a "tomos"-- on January 6.

Russia has accused the United States of encouraging the Constantinople Patriarchate of being behind the independence.

The Russian Orthodox Church, the largest and wealthiest of all Orthodox Churches worldwide, has severed relations in protest.

Peace is the failure of the military to convince the government that it can and should kick its enemies ass.

Offline kyivkpic

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Re: Ukrainian Orthodox vs Russian
« Reply #1 on: 09:26 18-Dec-2018 »
This is so stupid. I have never met a Ukrainian that goes to church or has read the bible or even knows the basic principles of Christianity, let alone follow them.

Will the little pictures of Jesus that taxi and bus drivers have on their dashes be more magical now or what?


 
Твоя голова всегда в ответе за то, куда сядет твой зад.

Online David Rochlin

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Re: Ukrainian Orthodox vs Russian
« Reply #2 on: 13:24 18-Dec-2018 »
I have met several Ukrainians who go to Church, some even appeared to be devout believers at least sometimes.  I can't say I have ever seen them reading the bible or thinking about it the way Americans do.  There is a lot of praying, I mean, it can be an all day thing for the devout.  Perhaps more commonly, one might visit the drive through, holy water, take out window, at the Monastery in Odessa.  On the Church steps or in Church, people can have a different, serious personality, like acting, in Church.  The head of the Russian Orthodox Church is a the Kremlin-based midget Crony.  The Russian Church can bless Russia and blame Ukraine.  Russian Orthodox Priests were involved in distributing weapons to the rebels, to saboteurs, to terrorists.  They also closed a lot of Ukrainian Orthodox Churches, taking them over and beating Ukrainian Orthodox Priests.

Offline UKUA

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Re: Ukrainian Orthodox vs Russian
« Reply #3 on: 14:46 18-Dec-2018 »

This is so stupid. I have never met a Ukrainian that goes to church or has read the bible or even knows the basic principles of Christianity, let alone follow them.



Oh c'mon, KP. You are so wrong here. I just picked up my wife from church a few hours ago. My entire extended family are good Christians and regularly attend Ukrainian Orthodox (Kyiv Patriarch) services where possible.

The Transfiguration Cathedral in Odessa, our local and Ukrainian Orthodox Church owned, is always well attended.




Offline Eddie

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Re: Ukrainian Orthodox vs Russian
« Reply #4 on: 15:09 18-Dec-2018 »
Well my wife makes damn sure to visit every little monastery everywhere we go when in Ukie land.  I was raised in a Lutheran church, so all this hoky poky about having to pay the priest to bless the house, boat and car is a little bit foreign to me, but the boy can drink some vodka so I let it go.  Nothing suggestive like getting an empty envelope in the mail that says "Gift for Priest" either.

The church thing in Ukie land is very, very well financed by my observations.  I like that they have the peasant size candles all the way up to the oligarch big baller size candles.  Something for everyone I guess.

Never in my life have I seen such a sham as the folks selling religious paraphanelia and honey at the Caves in Kiev. All these supposed little monasteries selling their own special blend of magic honey.  Yeah right.  Willing to bet some of it is imported from South America.

And don't get me started on the holy water scam.  We went to Zarvanytsya one day this past Summer.  My wife filled some bottles from the "holy spring" and on the drive home asked if I wanted some.  I didn't feel that the water was safe to drink because people throw money in the thing for starters, but I concluded in telling her that if she had the faith and believed, that God would keep her from getting sick.  She never drank any, so I guess she is becoming an American!

Offline kyivkpic

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Re: Ukrainian Orthodox vs Russian
« Reply #5 on: 15:31 18-Dec-2018 »
Ok, fair enough. There are some good Christians in Ukraine but the vast majority are just superstitious e.g., the icons, the holy water scam, etc.

I think I'm just annoyed that so much is being made of this. Orthodox churches are just such obvious fronts for organized crime.

Steal millions of dollars from your fellow citizens? Just help build an ostentatious church and take some pictures with the priests in their gaudy robes. I just wish the conversation was more about actual morality in Ukraine instead of pretending that creating some new church hierarchy changes anything other than cutting out the Russian Orthodox mafia.
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Re: Ukrainian Orthodox vs Russian
« Reply #6 on: 03:24 19-Dec-2018 »
ALL religions are a fu cking scam.
A
L
L
Peace is the failure of the military to convince the government that it can and should kick its enemies ass.

Offline Kord

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Re: Ukrainian Orthodox vs Russian
« Reply #7 on: 18:44 19-Dec-2018 »
ALL religions are a fu cking scam.
A
L
L

I agree with that but I think it is all organized religion. Or Pay to Pray.
If a person is spiritual and adheres to a particular religious belief system like Christianity or Islam I wouldn't consider that being scammed.

Back to the organized religion, even within a church's congregation, there are scams and cons being run. Church is prime hunting grounds for holy roller Amway/Avon/and other pyramid schemers. It's the sham worshippers within that irk me. I'm always more careful around supposedly religious folks. They are just as likely to try to screw someone over imho.

There are many people that get great benefit and comfort from religion, it can be a very positive experience or way of life. Just don't trust anyone but the Entity upstairs!  :) ;)


Online Fraucha

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Re: Ukrainian Orthodox vs Russian
« Reply #8 on: 04:33 20-Dec-2018 »
ALL religions are a fu cking scam.
A
L
L

I agree with that but I think it is all organized religion. Or Pay to Pray.
If a person is spiritual and adheres to a particular religious belief system like Christianity or Islam I wouldn't consider that being scammed.

Back to the organized religion, even within a church's congregation, there are scams and cons being run. Church is prime hunting grounds for holy roller Amway/Avon/and other pyramid schemers. It's the sham worshippers within that irk me. I'm always more careful around supposedly religious folks. They are just as likely to try to screw someone over imho.

There are many people that get great benefit and comfort from religion, it can be a very positive experience or way of life. Just don't trust anyone but the Entity upstairs!  :) ;)

All religion is organized, designed to take as much money from you as they can to fund their schemes, be it forcing religion down your throat, stripping away your trust in humanity in favor of some invisible something in the ether that will protect you, placing all fault on an evil being in another reality, giving adulation to said invisible force when something positive happens....the list is endless including outright murder and or genocide if you don't believe or want to, the way the church believes, sometimes resulting wars.... all which make you weak. Sorry, I have NOTHING good to say about religions, ever.  The more money you give to the church the closer to some god you become ..... what a fu ck ing scam. Don't get me started on missionaries, the lazy parasites of society.

Well, rant over. I need some pizza.

 
Peace is the failure of the military to convince the government that it can and should kick its enemies ass.

Online David Rochlin

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Re: Ukrainian Orthodox vs Russian
« Reply #9 on: 04:45 20-Dec-2018 »
Many of us had nice things to say about a Western Religious charity, operating in Ukraine, just a couple months ago.

Offline steveo

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Re: Ukrainian Orthodox vs Russian
« Reply #10 on: 06:34 20-Dec-2018 »
Religion is a form of societal control. Don't feel bad that you get jack in this lifetime, while those guys over there have everything, you'll get it in the next lifetime.

Ukraine needed its own church because the Russian Orthodox church is an arm of the Russian state apparatus, or Russian mafia elite (depending on which way you look at it), to allow places like Pecherska Lavra, which is crawling with Russian agents, and a whole bunch of loyalists willing to do as the church says...and they do, is not such a good idea.

My cleaning lady is devout Russian Orthodox, and they've sown the seeds with her that she needs to defend her faith...oh joy.
Keep calm and let karma do its thing.

Online Fraucha

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Re: Ukrainian Orthodox vs Russian
« Reply #11 on: 10:25 20-Dec-2018 »
Many of us had nice things to say about a Western Religious charity, operating in Ukraine, just a couple months ago.

That sh it always comes with a price.
Peace is the failure of the military to convince the government that it can and should kick its enemies ass.

Offline Kord

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Re: Ukrainian Orthodox vs Russian
« Reply #12 on: 02:33 21-Dec-2018 »
I'm 100% with you on the religious scum pervading all faiths.

A person can have personal beliefs and values based on something unseen or non-physical.
If that makes them happy and doesn't hurt anyone else, why not?
More power to 'em
Does not mean they need to attend a church, pay money, watch Billy Graham or join the Scientologists.



I bid you adieu  8)

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Re: Ukrainian Orthodox vs Russian
« Reply #13 on: 05:55 21-Dec-2018 »
Now that's just ridiculous!

Everyone knows the TP roll should go over the top.  PERIOD

Unless you have a cat.  :D
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