Author Topic: Iskander Nuclear Capable Missiles Deployed Near Ukraine  (Read 1896 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline David Rochlin

  • Subscriber
  • I live here
  • *
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 1030
  • -Receive: 1340
  • Posts: 6755
  • Gender: Male
  • Statue of the Motherland
Russia has deployed Iskander missiles near Ukraine.  They can be either nuclear or conventional.  This is intended to pressure the US which announced intent to exit the Arms Control agreement intended to limit such weapons, but was violated by deployment of Iskander. 
But, Ukraine is on the threshold of being able to possibly defeat a future Russian land invasion.  So this is also to make sure Ukrainians and American and EU allies know what happens if Ukraine wins. 


Offline Ted

  • Moderator
  • I live here
  • *
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 3146
  • -Receive: 4876
  • Posts: 7384
  • Gender: Male
The best part of Ukraine winning, even though the will be Ukrainian losses, is Russians dying, and many of them will be in Russia. Maybe many in Moscow, and St. Petersburg......maybe a little midget.....

Offline Danno99

  • Subscriber
  • Expat VSOP
  • *
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 55
  • -Receive: 94
  • Posts: 305
Russia has deployed Iskander missiles near Ukraine.  They can be either nuclear or conventional.  This is intended to pressure the US which announced intent to exit the Arms Control agreement intended to limit such weapons, but was violated by deployment of Iskander. 
But, Ukraine is on the threshold of being able to possibly defeat a future Russian land invasion.  So this is also to make sure Ukrainians and American and EU allies know what happens if Ukraine wins.

IN what way is Ukraine in a position to win in a real tussle with RU?

Q: Would the US, after accepting defeat in Afghanistan, plow into a war with Russia to protect the sovereignty of Ukraine?
A: Probably. OMG imagine the weapons systems flying off the shelf.
Montaigne's axiom: "Nothing is so firmly believed as what we least know."

Offline David Rochlin

  • Subscriber
  • I live here
  • *
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 1030
  • -Receive: 1340
  • Posts: 6755
  • Gender: Male
  • Statue of the Motherland
Russia has deployed Iskander missiles near Ukraine.  They can be either nuclear or conventional.  This is intended to pressure the US which announced intent to exit the Arms Control agreement intended to limit such weapons, but was violated by deployment of Iskander. 
But, Ukraine is on the threshold of being able to possibly defeat a future Russian land invasion.  So this is also to make sure Ukrainians and American and EU allies know what happens if Ukraine wins.

IN what way is Ukraine in a position to win in a real tussle with RU?

Q: Would the US, after accepting defeat in Afghanistan, plow into a war with Russia to protect the sovereignty of Ukraine?
A: Probably. OMG imagine the weapons systems flying off the shelf.

The number of very effective troops Russia has, may be 120,000.  While Russia's Army is huge, their well trained special forces and crack units are limited.  They have to be divided, largely between Crimea and the vicinity of Donbas.  Some of the better troops may be positioned in various other hot spots and bases. 
The Ukrainian Army, and volunteers thwarted some of Russia's ambitions like to take Odessa and Mariupol, in 2014, despite being poorly trained, and with the exception of volunteers, poorly motivated, and ill equipped .  Since 2014 the Ukrainian Army has been better trained, enlarged, better equipped and many units have better leadership. Motivation at least for the regular Army, is improved.  Ukraine's ability to conduct anti-tank warfare is greatly improved by various missile systems and portable launchers. 
Ukraine's great weakness, perhaps a fatal weakness is that Russia has air superiority and Ukraine's only chance against Russian Air power will be ground to air missiles and portable launchers. 
Ukraine probably cannot take back Mariupol and perhaps not Donbas, in a future conflict.
But, if Russia invades, Ukraine may be able to repel an invasion, next time.  In fact, if Russia invaded, Ukraine, then Ukraine's Army might be able to invade Russia and find Russian territory poorly defended.
On the whole, Russia's weakness is that they are spread out too thin, their forces dispersed to deal with all manner of slow conflicts.  Russia's supply lines would be really stretched out in an invasion and they could not supply a lengthy conflict.  Russian doctrine assumes early use of nuclear weapons.  But, can they do that, especially if Ukraine invades Russia?

UKUA

  • Guest

Ukraine probably cannot take back Mariupol and perhaps not Donbas, in a future conflict.


Pardon? Am I misunderstanding your above? Mariupol is very much part of free Ukraine and has been since 2014 when the Ukrainian forces regained complete control of Mariupol. The city has, for now, become the provisional capital of the Donetsk oblast.


Offline David Rochlin

  • Subscriber
  • I live here
  • *
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 1030
  • -Receive: 1340
  • Posts: 6755
  • Gender: Male
  • Statue of the Motherland

Ukraine probably cannot take back Mariupol and perhaps not Donbas, in a future conflict.


Pardon? Am I misunderstanding your above? Mariupol is very much part of free Ukraine and has been since 2014 when the Ukrainian forces regained complete control of Mariupol. The city has, for now, become the provisional capital of the Donetsk oblast.
Sorry, it was late, and I meant Crimea, but Mariupol was still on my mind, from what I had written earlier.

Offline Sailor291

  • Subscriber
  • Expat VSOP
  • *
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 0
  • -Receive: 27
  • Posts: 123
Dont forget, Napoleon and Hitler both thought Russia would be a push over.

Tnic

  • Guest
Dont forget, Napoleon and Hitler both thought Russia would be a push over.

Imperial Russia had more motivated soldiers defending the rodina.

Hitler fought the USSR not huilostan only.

Offline David Rochlin

  • Subscriber
  • I live here
  • *
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 1030
  • -Receive: 1340
  • Posts: 6755
  • Gender: Male
  • Statue of the Motherland
Dont forget, Napoleon and Hitler both thought Russia would be a push over.

I don't mean to suggest that Ukraine can conquer Russia or take Moscow.  Ukraine may be able to repel a further invasion of Ukraine, and perhaps take a few cities inside Russia, cities not far from the border.  Imagine if they were able to capture a few  medium range nukes from Russia.

Offline julienp

  • Subscriber
  • Expat VSOP
  • *
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 110
  • -Receive: 300
  • Posts: 393
I don't mean to suggest that Ukraine can conquer Russia or take Moscow.  Ukraine may be able to repel a further invasion of Ukraine, and perhaps take a few cities inside Russia, cities not far from the border.  Imagine if they were able to capture a few  medium range nukes from Russia.

Since they can't take back the Donbass, nor Crimea, what leads you to believe Ukraine could take any city in Russia ?
Or you mean crossing the border few dozens km and "capturing" a city by putting a flag for some days

UKUA

  • Guest
Re: Iskander Nuclear Capable Missiles Deployed Near Ukraine
« Reply #10 on: 22:02 04-Feb-2019 »
Dont forget, Napoleon and Hitler both thought Russia would be a push over.

I doubt you would find modern day Russians so willing to become insignificant cannon fodder on behalf of the Kremlin-based midget.


Offline David Rochlin

  • Subscriber
  • I live here
  • *
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 1030
  • -Receive: 1340
  • Posts: 6755
  • Gender: Male
  • Statue of the Motherland
Re: Iskander Nuclear Capable Missiles Deployed Near Ukraine
« Reply #11 on: 22:40 04-Feb-2019 »
I don't mean to suggest that Ukraine can conquer Russia or take Moscow.  Ukraine may be able to repel a further invasion of Ukraine, and perhaps take a few cities inside Russia, cities not far from the border.  Imagine if they were able to capture a few  medium range nukes from Russia.

Since they can't take back the Donbass, nor Crimea, what leads you to believe Ukraine could take any city in Russia ?
Or you mean crossing the border few dozens km and "capturing" a city by putting a flag for some days

I do mean crossing the border a short distance and holding a city for just some days.  The advantage of doing that is to let the pillaging and destruction happen on Russian soil instead of Ukrainian, more than any other reason. 
Part of the reason Ukraine can't take Donbas back is, well, why would they?  How is it to Ukraine's advantage?  Ukraine is presently stronger without it. Russia sort of wants to give Donbas back, albeit with strings.   Crimea is also not worth the effort, but Russia is defending Crimea much more effectively.  Both Crimea and Donbas have valuable oil and gas resources and Crimea has land access to Europe and the port.  That is more or less what they have of value to Ukraine.

Offline Pantherdk

  • Subscriber
  • Expat VSOP
  • *
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 10
  • -Receive: 63
  • Posts: 144
  • Gender: Male
  • I'm new here - please be gentle with me!!
Re: Iskander Nuclear Capable Missiles Deployed Near Ukraine
« Reply #12 on: 22:49 04-Feb-2019 »
Ukraine could possible take back donbas if they tried to do it very fast.

The military now have portable antitank weapons.
The army is now much more professional then back in 2014.
Also They just deployed the azov back in duty at the frontlines.

Azov stod for some of the biggest battles of the donbas back in 2015/14 and are highly skilled military people.


Offline Danno99

  • Subscriber
  • Expat VSOP
  • *
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 55
  • -Receive: 94
  • Posts: 305
Re: Iskander Nuclear Capable Missiles Deployed Near Ukraine
« Reply #13 on: 23:05 14-Mar-2019 »
Dont forget, Napoleon and Hitler both thought Russia would be a push over.

To be fair, after the Soviets performance in Finland in 39, who could have imagined otherwise?
Montaigne's axiom: "Nothing is so firmly believed as what we least know."