Author Topic: Beware of UK Visas Ofice in Kyiv  (Read 17623 times)

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rjm

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Re: Beware of UK Visas Ofice in Kyiv
« Reply #30 on: 22:15 19-Aug-2008 »
I think the Steve H post sums it up totally!!!

We can listen to rhetoric all day but the fact of the matter is that every time I visit the UK I encounter more and  more friends who are pissed off with the changes in society and express a desire to leave the country. Some views I here are bordering on racist but some are legitimate concerns with the fast changing New Labour model of Britain that seems to want to accomodate and promote every minority group under the sun!

Last year I visited South London and I felt like a stranger and was genuinely horrified at what our capital city has become and daily news bulletins of shooting amongst the black community there since have hardly wheted my appetite for another visit.

Being of Scottish/Irish blood Im not the traditional follower of "middle England" views but even I can see that our country is sleepwalking into future problems and the the distressing thing is the amount of people who cannot see it and prefer to support the "rights" of people who in many cases are about as integrated as a pork chop at a Jewish wedding!!!   

Offline azzice

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Re: Beware of UK Visas Ofice in Kyiv
« Reply #31 on: 01:27 20-Aug-2008 »
How immigrants can be so negative toward immigrants. It is just because you aren't black ? Or you are class A immigrants? Or what?  :o :o


Offline azzice

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Re: Beware of UK Visas Ofice in Kyiv
« Reply #32 on: 01:39 20-Aug-2008 »



I wouldn't say white=British, as there are white people who aren't, but British=white. Having a UK passport doesn't turn you into a member of the British nation. Nationality is a technical issue of holding a passport. National identity involves, culture, language, history, religion, ancestry... in a word, identity.



So black people cannot be member of British nation? Even if same religion, language, culture? So it is just a question of colour???  ??? ??? ???

You are not a dissident. Just a poor ignorant racist.

Offline free spirit

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Re: Beware of UK Visas Ofice in Kyiv
« Reply #33 on: 05:22 20-Aug-2008 »



I wouldn't say white=British, as there are white people who aren't, but British=white. Having a UK passport doesn't turn you into a member of the British nation. Nationality is a technical issue of holding a passport. National identity involves, culture, language, history, religion, ancestry... in a word, identity.



So black people cannot be member of British nation? Even if same religion, language, culture? So it is just a question of colour???  ??? ??? ???

You are not a dissident. Just a poor ignorant racist.

Well, I will overlook the name-calling. It is not a question of colour, but of identity. I think that without the multiculturalists who have pushed this agenda to the point of criminalising other views, black people would have assimilated better, but at the moment, they are enabled to cry "RACIST" whenever things don't go their way. So clearly they view themselves as different, and wield a weapon against British people. It is because of this that they are not British, whatever their passport says. Think of the origins of the English - they were quite "diverse" to use a catchphrase - Vikings, Angles, Saxons, Jutes, Celts... but unless you can show me that the Vikings maintain themselves as a separate group in England today, suing for discrimination whenever they don't get their way, with separate Viking police associations and whatnot - unless can show that, you don't have a valid point. Black people have not assimilated - for one thing, assimilation would mean getting their crime levels down to the average. The newspapers are all pushing the multiculti agenda for all its worth - look at reports that you read of "stabbing by Londoner"... and ask yourself why they don't give details of the assailant... it's because the assailant is black... which information leaks out eventually. Hmm! Let me see! 16 teenagers stabbed in London this year... 15 of them black... all the assailants black... How's your maths, azzice?? ;) I am embarrassed even to walk down the street in London and see what it has become. I am living in China, and China's richest cities are no longer so poor - Shanghai, Shenzhen etc $10,000 per capita. But, they are not trying to create Bangladesh and Nigeria in their cities. Hong Kong... hmm... richer than England... everyone from any nationality can go without a visa. So no visa nonsense, which I welcome!! Does that mean that it is developing as a multicultural society replete with crime levels to match? No, in fact, no. Now, why would that be? Would it be because Hong Kong is shut off from the world? A Hong Kong equivalent of a "Little Englander" mentality? Er...no... it is an international trade and finance centre. So how can it trade with the world and be open to the world and let anyone come without a visa and not get into deep ****? Might it be because you can't go there and claim the local benefits and then invite all your family to go there and live on benefits and sue the locals for alleged (and largely non-existent) discrimination when things don't go your way?? Could we learn something from Hong Kong?

Offline P-N

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Re: Beware of UK Visas Ofice in Kyiv
« Reply #34 on: 07:28 20-Aug-2008 »
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1047136/Labours-open-door-policy-sees-immigration-soar-fold-compared-Tory-decade.html

How exact this is who knows - statistics are a tool for anyone and for accomplished "misleaders and misinterpretors" such as politicians none of which could lay straight in bed (on either side of "the house"), these statistics can no doubt me matched against other statistics "showing" more have also been turned away.

I do hope, however, it is another nail in the career coffin of Gordon Clown, a man clearly not fit to lead a boy scout camping expedition let alone a country.
"When surrounded by the dark void of the willfully blind, it does not excuse those that are a spark of light their duty to shine" - Me

rjm

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Re: Beware of UK Visas Ofice in Kyiv
« Reply #35 on: 07:31 20-Aug-2008 »
bore off  ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ???

Most of us used to hear enough of this claptrap in the UK and find Ukraine a welcome break from it.

How immigrants can be so negative toward immigrants. It is just because you aren't black ? Or you are class A immigrants? Or what?  :o :o



Moving

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Re: Beware of UK Visas Ofice in Kyiv
« Reply #36 on: 08:18 20-Aug-2008 »
well many people could easily argue that UK would not be the today's powerhouse which it is (despite Brits love slandering the UK, the country is still the most important european leader and the country with the highest per capita income - not to list that despite P-N comments Brits pay less taxes than other EU nationals) without the immigrants

some other would argue "you reap what you sew" (mispelled) because it is naive to think that the UK has no responsibilities towards some thirld world nationalities

Anyway what I am interested in it is RJM's comment, in fact it is totally misleading to attribute to Blacks that sort of crime which is daily perpetrated even by Whites. The knife culture (and the stabbings he cites) in the UK belongs equally both to Blacks and Whites.



rjm

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Re: Beware of UK Visas Ofice in Kyiv
« Reply #37 on: 08:32 20-Aug-2008 »
Yet again Im assuming you are merely fishing with that 3rd paragraph so I advice no one to bite.

Either that or you know ZERO about the current Knife situation in London!!!!

well many people could easily argue that UK would not be the today's powerhouse which it is (despite Brits love slandering the UK, the country is still the most important european leader and the country with the highest per capita income - not to list that despite P-N comments Brits pay less taxes than other EU nationals) without the immigrants

some other would argue "you reap what you sew" (mispelled) because it is naive to think that the UK has no responsibilities towards some thirld world nationalities

Anyway what I am interested in it is RJM's comment, in fact it is totally misleading to attribute to Blacks that sort of crime which is daily perpetrated even by Whites. The knife culture (and the stabbings he cites) in the UK belongs equally both to Blacks and Whites.




Offline free spirit

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Re: Beware of UK Visas Ofice in Kyiv
« Reply #38 on: 08:55 20-Aug-2008 »
RJM, you said don't bite, but I think I have 90% of the Ukrainian population on my side when I say this:

Given that all three main parties support immigration in the UK, any stats showing the system is failing are likely to be undercounting the problem... as no one with a chance at power is trying to do anything about this.

Immigrants and the UK powerhouse? Well... you have to break it down. German immigrants...doing jobs in the finance industry? Not going to be a problem. East European immigrants doing plastering for half the price, isn't a problem for me (although I think the government and the media have tried to confuse people by turning the immigration debate into a issue about Poles...  cynically). Somalis, nearly all sitting on benefit... what is the advantage here? Bangladeshis sitting on benefit in Tower Hamlets... how are they going to "pay our pensions" unless they get jobs. Have you ever wondered why the stats aren't broken down by origin in this way... the powers that be don't want the reality to become clear. In the US, George Borjas, a Cuban immigrant, is a famous labour economist who has shown that there is no net advantage to the US by immigration: true they do things cheaper, but add in benefits, spending on prisons etc, and things become murky. The boost to GDP in the US is ENTIRELY accounted for by wages and benefits received by the Mexicans, leaving no advantage to US citizens. Actually, what immigration is is privatisation of advantages and nationalisation of costs. For an individual business that manages to get cheaper labour, it is good. For the country as a whole, there is welfare spending, money sent back by Western Union, an increase in crime, spending on  prisons, but all those things are coming out of the public purse, so the individual company has "nationalised" the costs.

The UK has done its bit: with about 15% of the population from minorities (well the last census said 13%, but school reception classes show about 20%, so I split the difference), we have fully done our quota. China: well 10% of China's population is 130m, so the next 130m asylum seekers go to China. India: the next 100m go to India. Indonesia: 20m, Pakistan: 12m. Bangladesh: 12m. Nigeria: 10m. Thi way it is fair. We don't OWE anyone anything. Apart from the fact that the ex-colonies have mostly done really badly since we left - look at Zimbabwe!!!!!

Knife culture is disproportionately black, but not totally. Gun killings almost wholly black. They don't publish crime figures by race anymore, in case they are "put to the wrong use". But a while back, a chief constable of police said, "so what if 80% of muggings in London are by blacks... 85% of crime in a Sunderland is by whites". Er... er... er... gosh... no IQ tests before getting jobs in the police force then. The fact that Sunderland, 98.6% white in the last census, has 85% of crime done by white people does NOT show English people are overrrepresented in crime there. 85% according to my calculator is less than 98.6%. Why are 1.4% ethnic minorities in Sunderland doing 15% of crime???? We have to put up with this constant idiocy by public figures, drawing salaries from the public purse but working against us.
« Last Edit: 08:59 20-Aug-2008 by free spirit »

rjm

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Re: Beware of UK Visas Ofice in Kyiv
« Reply #39 on: 09:26 20-Aug-2008 »
Although I agree with much of what you say please dont confuse me as anti imigration!!!!

As someone already mentioned that would be hypocritical considering Ive lived in Ukraine for 5 years and Russia before that.

Controlled Imigration has always been vital to Britains progress and long may it continue, what I object to is this term "Multi Culturism" this is a term invented by the liberals but in reality has no real meaning, in UK there is only ONE culture "British" in Ukraine also its the same, I choose to live in Ukraine and live here as a local and despite many moans have to respect the Ukrainian culture or go somewhere else, from what I can see in British cities its very different and people are living in very divided communities with no trust or integration with other cultures, this is potentially dangerous and harmful in my view and in some cases ghettos have almost been created, Nottingham, Moss Side, Peckham etc. I dont see much sign of Britishness there or people wanting to contribute to the nation.

If people want to create Bangladesh, Pakistan, Poland or Lithuania in UK this is completely disrespectful to the country that allowed these people to prosper, I would never dream of setting up a British area here in Beresteiska as I know that is fundamentally wrong and disrespectful to Ukraine.

Im a great advocate of multi nationalisn but multi culturism is a recipe for disaster.

In UK the only people I ever met who advovcated multi culturism was the "Highgate set" because it increased the variety of restaurants in their area and gave them an endless supply of people who would wash their car for 2 quid!!!!!!!!!!!!! Meanwhile us in the real world....................................................   

Offline P-N

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Re: Beware of UK Visas Ofice in Kyiv
« Reply #40 on: 10:01 20-Aug-2008 »
well many people could easily argue that UK would not be the today's powerhouse which it is (despite Brits love slandering the UK, the country is still the most important european leader and the country with the highest per capita income - not to list that despite P-N comments Brits pay less taxes than other EU nationals) without the immigrants

some other would argue "you reap what you sew" (mispelled) because it is naive to think that the UK has no responsibilities towards some thirld world nationalities

Anyway what I am interested in it is RJM's comment, in fact it is totally misleading to attribute to Blacks that sort of crime which is daily perpetrated even by Whites. The knife culture (and the stabbings he cites) in the UK belongs equally both to Blacks and Whites.




Moving some of what you say I tend to agree with, some I do not.  The most influential EU country is Germany - Germany pays more towards the EU than Britian (although Britian is second) , it has a bigger and better manufacturing and design base than Britain, it has a far superior infrastructure than Britain (ours is good but theirs is better).  Germany is also represented by a leadership which looks after the interests of Germany first and foremost and does not allow itself to be "led down the garden path" by other nations as the UK has done.  Germany then looks after their interests in Europe and the world with purely German interests at heart.  As a German citizen that is what you want.  You are correct, the UK is an influence in Europe but no more so than Germany or France for that matter.

If we are to assume your arguement that the UK does have responsibilities to other "developing nations", then it is failing in those resposibilities dramatically.  Within the "Commonwealth" (read old empire which upon it's collapse, nations still wanting trade and political ties with the UK) is Zimbabwe.  Robert Mugabi is a despot tyrant equal in his treatment of his people to that of Saddam Hussian.  He has been in power since the 1980's, is still in power and has in fact been Knighted by the UK.  Of the "developing nations" those in the Commonwealth, morally and politically the UK should be assisting first you could argue.  What have we done? - nothing what so ever.

In the 1960's when Britain had a shortage of workers, Enoch Powell, a senior politician of the time, warned of the future problems of allowing almost uncontrolled numbers of migrants from the "Commonwealth" for future generations:  

http://www.sterlingtimes.co.uk/powell_press.htm  It is but one of his many speeches on the subject of migration and the future of the country at the time.

Regardless of his views, this led to mass migration from Jamica, Pakistan, India, and other corners of the Commonwealth.  It also solved the accute shortage of labour (predominently in the lower paid jobs) of the country at the time.

These people duely had children (and these children had children etc.) born in Britain, therefore by birth being "British".  The parents and grandparents also wanted to keep "home tradition" alive and not be forgotten.  (No radical difference to Americans celebrating 4th July in Ukraine or me celebrating Christmas on 25 December here for example).  This lead to several generations of British (via birth)/Indians (via tradition), the same for Pakistan, Jamica etc. etc.

It is every parents desire (if they are worthy of being a parent) that their children exceed their own achievements in life and therefore the children were encouraged to take full advantage of a far superior education system (1960's - 1990's) than they would have had prior to their parents migration.

This didnot immediately lead to their advancement in the workplace or society and caused the "Race Riots" of the 1980's in Brixton, Toxteth and St Pauls to name but a few.  

Eventually legislation was passed to assist these people and led to these individuals succeeding in the work place of the traditional "Anglo-Saxon".

What also happened, due to many reasons, (some down to the above) was the re-discovery of their cultural past.  This then divided these groups further.  You need only walk around Glascow, Leeds, Bradford, Manchester, Blackburn etc. and you will now find extreme hatred between the British (with Indian roots) and the British (with Pakistani roots) in line with the international thinking of both countries today.  It has indeed turned into violence along these lines on the streets of Britain both as indivduals and groups.  This polarisation had led to whole communities locating themselves in particular streets where nobody but a British-Pakistani or British Indian can or will live respectively (as an example).  In this respect Britian has indeed reaped what it has sewn.....but it has been magnified by international events too.

As much as the British education system is not the worst, it is not as good as it has been.  There are many who obtain degrees because they have been taught how to pass the examinations without a full understanding of the degree contents.  I know you will not believe that, but as an employer I can see that drastic difference between those who obtained their degrees 10 years ago and those who obtained them 3 years ago.  The understanding of the subject is vastly different, to the disadvantage of the more recent graduate and the employer.

There is, now, once again, the circle coming back around (as the 1960's and 1970's generation of migrants retire) of skills shortages which is again multiplied by the lack of interest by many "Anglo-Saxon's" in studying medicine, sciences, nursing and dentistry for example and the lack of traditional apprenticeships in manufacturing and construction.

With regards the health service (for example) this is further complicated by "National Health Trusts" being accountable for every £ they spend to deliver patient care.  They will therefore look to stretch this £ as far as is possible, resulting in offering work to Indian Doctor graduates (for example) who have a sound knowledge of their qualification and will work for less in many cases.  It is a business "trade off" to stretch every £ against politics and fiscal policy of Government and also creates the necessity for continued migration to the UK.

The majority of posters (i think  :-\) would not be against the migration of educated, competent skilled people coming into the UK to benefit the UK, particularly on a "contract basis" as I have worked around the world.  They will be against the mass migration of unskilled and morally iligitimate migrants coming to the UK for the obvious benefits to themselves without returning anything to the UK in the short, medium or long term which past migration policies have allowed almost unhindered.  Only now is the UK introducing a policy similar to that which has been in use by Australia for over a decade but as the saying goes, the horse has long since bolted and we are only now closing the stable door.

Knife crime (and crime in general) is affected by the migrants (to what degree is open to debate) due to the polarisation (as mentioned above) of communities within Britain and turns into a "turf war" between the youth/young adults from the communties.  Much violence can be attributed to people from "different neighbouring housing estates" throughout the country and often (but not always) these "estates" are split along "historical migration" lines which has led to polarised communities.  It is therefore not a difference between Grade A and Grade B migrants but the proximity between the ethnic groups and the "ideologies" these groups have about themselves and others around them.

The UK has a very complex problem, brought upon ourselves (with at the time little alternaive in the 1960's), which may never be resolved.



 

"When surrounded by the dark void of the willfully blind, it does not excuse those that are a spark of light their duty to shine" - Me

Offline azzice

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Re: Beware of UK Visas Ofice in Kyiv
« Reply #41 on: 10:14 20-Aug-2008 »
so on this site you cant speak about  sex but write a ton of racist bpoops?
Where is the administrator?

Mybe kick the new nazibrit theorist?

JonathanCampion

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Re: Beware of UK Visas Ofice in Kyiv
« Reply #42 on: 10:17 20-Aug-2008 »
- which of us are racists?

Carlusha

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Re: Beware of UK Visas Ofice in Kyiv
« Reply #43 on: 10:50 20-Aug-2008 »
I don't see any racism.  :) Perhaps a mention in a round about way that the island is sinking under sheer weight of numbers but it can hardly be taken as racism as such.
« Last Edit: 10:52 20-Aug-2008 by Carlushika »

Offline free spirit

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Re: Beware of UK Visas Ofice in Kyiv
« Reply #44 on: 11:11 20-Aug-2008 »
so on this site you cant speak about  sex but write a ton of racist bpoops?
Where is the administrator?

Mybe kick the new nazibrit theorist?

Well, you may feel free to kick me - I won't mind at all. While I would prefer you didn't hurl accusations along the line of "racist" and "nazi", I will overlook those too, so fire away...

Maybe I don't know what happened on the board before, was "sex" a forbidden subject? If this opens cans of worms, don't feel obliged to explain!