Author Topic: The continuing GOP slide into absurdity  (Read 5930 times)

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Offline Billy T

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The continuing GOP slide into absurdity
« on: 07:30 05-Feb-2009 »
So they lose an election pretty hard and this is how they plan on reorganizing and coming back....The GOP today is like what the Dems were a while back-so completely off the rails, flailing about trying to find a purpose and only looking ridiculous....

http://www.nydailynews.com/blogs/dc/2009/02/joe-the-plumber-in-2015.html

Bolding by me...

Joe the Plumber in 2015?
February 3, 2009
You’d think Joe the Plumber’s 15 minutes would be up by now. But , no, after a stint as a correspondent in Israel, he took his act to Capitol Hill today.

The first order of business: giving political advice to conservative Republican staffers at breakfast, which, Wurzelbacher told us, “Went really well.”

His advice, essentially, was to take no prisoners in standing up for their beliefs.

“It’s not politically incorrect to say you’re Republican or conservative,” Joe said. “They need to dig their heels in and fight for what needs to be done.”

And no reason to be subtle, he said, as long as folks inform themselves. “I don’t believe there’s two sides to every story. It’s black and white,” Wurzelbacher explained. “There’s right and wrong.”

One thing that needs to be done, he said, is killing this stimulus package, because it’s just another example of “American government” — Republicans and Democrats — “kicking our butts left and right.” He also called it welfare.

As for his own political career, America will just have to wait six years until his son grows up.

“I don’t know if the American public deserve me,” he said, “but my son definitely deserves my time now.”

So look for Joe for Something in 2015. Why not? He’s kept his 15 minutes going this long.

- Michael McAuliff



There isn't two sides to every story, there's black, white, right and wrong- I guess that makes 4 sides?

And no Joe, I don't know if we deserve you...Sure we've sinned and must desreve some sort of punishment but are we really that bad?


"The story of the gay sheep showed what can result when science meets global news"--The International Herald Tribune, January 26th, 2007.

Offline EnglishMKyiv

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Re: The continuing GOP slide into absurdity
« Reply #1 on: 07:50 05-Feb-2009 »
Joe the Plumber could be Sarah Palin's choice for VP in 2016 perhaps.

Hopefully by then there will be an affordable warp drive available and I will be able to leave the planet.

Joe
We live only to discover beauty. All else is a form of waiting.

Offline Packman

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Re: The continuing GOP slide into absurdity
« Reply #2 on: 09:21 08-Feb-2009 »
Sarah and Joe...ummm ::) didn't they already make the film..."Dumb and Dumber" ::)

Offline MWDabbs

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Re: The continuing GOP slide into absurdity
« Reply #3 on: 01:04 20-Apr-2009 »
 :o :o :o

Well...this might turn a few heads.  I need to look at this a lot closer, but I might not just be opposed to the Democratic Party now, but may totally and completely reverse my assessment of anything good I've ever said about Bush and Cheney.  I haven't agreed with them on everything, but have agreed with them on a few things.

At least one of these stood almost without question.  I would have considered it impossible to be wrong on that one... but, just because I saw it with my own eyes, doesn't mean I saw it all.  So far, it is pretty compelling... but I'll report back after I'm completely sure I've been completely wrong.

Leastwise, as far as liberals go - if you can convincingly present well-founded, logical arguments, you will get centrists and even a few right wingers to change their minds.  It might take a while...  ::)
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Offline MWDabbs

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Re: The continuing GOP slide into absurdity
« Reply #4 on: 20:11 23-Apr-2009 »
Okay, my slide went into freefall...  What started with watching one YouTube video proceeded into about 10 hours worth of videos.  I'd say about half of this was news clippings from ABC, CNN, MSNBC, FOX, BBC, and PBS that I remember. 

How many people are suspicious about 911? 
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Online David Rochlin

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Re: The continuing GOP slide into absurdity
« Reply #5 on: 21:03 23-Apr-2009 »
Okay, my slide went into freefall...  What started with watching one YouTube video proceeded into about 10 hours worth of videos.  I'd say about half of this was news clippings from ABC, CNN, MSNBC, FOX, BBC, and PBS that I remember. 

How many people are suspicious about 911? 

911 really was caused by Jumbo jets crashing into the top of the world trade center towers.  It really was a plan hatched by Bin Laden and Al Qaeda just as it appeared on the many video tapes showing huge aircraft doing that.  The many video taped sessions, bragging about his amazing orgy of destruction, really were made by Bin Laden and other Al Qaeda leaders. 
It really was not the first, but the second attempt by Al Qaeda to blow up the trade center, the first effort being the 1993 bombing by the same group.   
   People who ignore what is glaringly obvious, are really motivated more by what they want to be true, than by anything that actually happened.  You don't need alleged and fabricated, stretched, and tenuous evidence, when giant airliners laden with thousands of gallons of fuel, crashed into buildings.  The whole thing is very intuitive.  A child could guess what can happen if airliners crash into buildings.
   I have noticed that Ukrainians greatly prefer to believe these tenuous conspiracy theories, which, are no doubt encouraged greatly by the Russian press and Russia's insular leadership. 
Such views help people justify the politics of ignoring obvious threats in the world, and appeasing terrorists.  It helps them sleep better.

richardm

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Re: The continuing GOP slide into absurdity
« Reply #6 on: 22:11 23-Apr-2009 »
Correct me if Im wrong but I thought most if these theories were coming out of the States, every 2 minutes someone is releasing a book, documentary or film about their slant on it.

I am not sure the Russian press can be blamed for starting these theories, there are enough people in the States making a good enough job of it from where Im standing!

Online David Rochlin

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Re: The continuing GOP slide into absurdity
« Reply #7 on: 22:35 23-Apr-2009 »
Correct me if Im wrong but I thought most if these theories were coming out of the States, every 2 minutes someone is releasing a book, documentary or film about their slant on it.

I am not sure the Russian press can be blamed for starting these theories, there are enough people in the States making a good enough job of it from where Im standing!


I didn't intend to suggest that most 911 conspiracy theories originated in Russia.  In fact, they originate all over the world.  As to whether most of them originate in the U.S., I couldn't say.  I am certain most of them don't originate in Russia. 
I only brought Ukraine, and indirectly, Russia into it, because, well, this is Expatua.com.  And I do personally know a Ukrainian true believer, apepoop conspiracy theorist. 
What I mean about Russian involvement is that they have taken some of these fringe ideas, and really run with them to try to make them the predominant view in Eastern Europe.  I will not be surprised if these ideas are taught in history lessons, with the documented facts, shunted aside.  That is really where I was going.

Offline Billy T

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Re: The continuing GOP slide into absurdity
« Reply #8 on: 07:17 24-Apr-2009 »
"9-11 Truthers" are bozos no matter what country they're from.....

People don't trust the government to pay the right price for toilet seats or pencils but then they turn around and believe they could pull of a conspiracy this complicated?...Which is it? Are they the most diabolical cabal of all time or a big incompetent beauracracy?

The simplest explanation is usually the right one...And the 9-11 conspiracy is far from the simplest explanation...
"The story of the gay sheep showed what can result when science meets global news"--The International Herald Tribune, January 26th, 2007.

Offline MWDabbs

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Re: The continuing GOP slide into absurdity
« Reply #9 on: 17:17 24-Apr-2009 »
Interesting response.  There's no doubt that planes crashed into the buildings. 

If the simplest answer was always correct, then there would be $400 toilet seats stacked high at Home Depot.  Or, we could say it was a typo.  Obviously, there was no graft involved.  That would involve some sort of conspiracy for someone to make a few extra dollars.  That quite clearly never happens because that would not be the simplest answer.

Obviously being an extreme right wing fundamentalist type, I could just say, "Well, whatever left wingers believe (on anything) is whacked out, because...well, they're left wing nuts."   It seems that is also how the left feels about people on the right. 

Most of the 911 conspiracies were presented by Americans from the start who were mostly (but not entirely) opposed to the Bush-Cheney administration.  I haven't reached a conclusion yet, not that anyone will care what my conclusion is... and not that I care what anyone else thinks about it or me. 

I'm kind of surprised by the response though, shouldn't be - it's not different than what my response would have been.  So, it has me wondering really what the threshold is to convince anyone to even **consider** something contrary to their strongly held views? 
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Offline Billy T

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Re: The continuing GOP slide into absurdity
« Reply #10 on: 07:59 27-Apr-2009 »
I'm not saying a conspiracy is absolutely impossible....Everything under the sun is possible...But up to this point the overwhelming preponderance of evidence points to two planes crashing into buildings, piloted by 19 mostly Saudi dudes... A conspiracy of bad accounting and graft is not quite the same thing as a conspiracy of televised mass murder, but you knew that.....

The evidence for conspiracy is the same sort of U.N. black helicopter, tri-lateral, reptoid, illuminati stuff we've been hearing for years from people both far right and far left on the political spectrum....One could even say it's become a sort of "boy who cried wolf" situation...If there was credible evidence put forward by these fringers, it would be rendered less noticeable due to the fact that since McCarthy, there has been endless warnings of various shadow cabals, and so far none of them have come true and most people pay no heed anymore.....

It seems to me to be another movement by people who "need" to have fear of something.....The reality that 19 yahoos are willing to fly themselves into buildings apparently isn't scary enough, so we need some darker, more mysterious boogeyman....

If 9-11 were an inside job, it would have to have had at least some of the former Admin involved, so if we are going to go down this road, it leads us to why didn't they plant WMD's in Iraq? Why didn't they come up with convincing "evidence" of Saddam Hussein's govt with 9-11 or Al Queada? Both of these things would have been easier to pull off than 9-11....It makes no sense, IMHO, that a government would pull off a Riechstag fire, then fail to have the next steps such as planting WMD's in Iraq, ready to go....Were they sitting around on 9-12, going "well golly gee that worked, what was it we were gonna do next? I think we forgot to plan for the next stage-oops!"...They find a few vials of bio or chemical agent in Iraq, and the entire war and their entire reshaping the middle east agenda has political cover for years to come, but they blow that off after this 9-11 conspiracy....that doesn't make any sense to me....
"The story of the gay sheep showed what can result when science meets global news"--The International Herald Tribune, January 26th, 2007.

Offline MWDabbs

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Re: The continuing GOP slide into absurdity
« Reply #11 on: 00:33 28-Apr-2009 »
Well... there is some argument that at least some of the 19 hijackers received some assistance.  It could be left simply to a consistent pattern of intelligence failures.  I could easily believe that.  There are four items that convince me otherwise. 

One, is that an army unit (Able Danger) assigned to track the hijackers leaving Pakistan had accumulated a substantial amount of data and was asked to (and did) destroy it.  Testimony to this effect was made to Congress and is on video. 

Two, is that WTC #7 was a controlled detonation.  It takes a little bit of time to set up demolitions for a 47 story building - more than a few hours. 

Three, the former lead investigator into Bin Laden for the FBI, John O'Neil, resigned over the way things were being handled.  He takes a job at the WTC.  He dies on his first or second day on the job.  I don't think that is indicative of a plot against him, rather I think he had a good idea of what was coming.   Maybe not the how, but the where.  I wouldn't rule out something more to this, just oddly ironic any way one looks at it.

Four, the whole air defense response.  Just a few months before, the protocol for responding to planes going off-track was for the flight controllers to contact NORAD.  That was changed to where they had to go through the Pentagon first, and the Pentagon would contact NORAD.  Air Force response changed three times over the course of Sept. 11.  The ultimate story was that there was a training exercise involving the same exact scenario (multiple hijackings) and a) there were no jets available to scramble, b) they didn't know which planes were real or part of the exercise.  Theoretically, the Air Force should have a plane at the wingtip of any aircraft violating air space within 10 minutes, and in all four cases, there was between 30 and 90 minutes of response time. 

At some point, it would seem to me that it's not too far out of line to raise an eyebrow, or two.  These are the four points that raise my eyebrows.   There's a point where things stop being coincidence. 

Normally, I wouldn't believe this either.  I saw the planes crash into the buildings, too - no dispute whatsoever there.  One by one, none of these points alone amount to much.  Taken together and they raise reasonable doubt. 

What I find especially interesting, and even in my own case, is my willingness to ignore anything other than the official version - that was pretty much what we knew within the first week/month of 911.  Give a group of people 7-8 years to research things and maybe a lot of it is bunk, and then again... do you believe people trying to disprove the government or do you believe the same government telling you that there are WMD's in Iraq?

So, again, it is a matter of consistency of argument.  Essentially, what the stance I'm seeing is that since the government was wrong on A (Iraq) that it is correct on B (911). 

Two very different scenarios. 

We had minimal ability to plant evidence in Iraq because it was hostile to any efforts to do so.  Fact that there was at least some WMD's in Iraq still seems to be ignored by everyone - fact was that mustard/vx gas artillery shells were mixed into conventional stocks.  Along with this, it was not the UN's role to prove that Iraq had the WMD's, it was Iraq's responsibility to prove that it did not have them. Had the US stuck to the basic mandates of the UN and not stretched it to the terrorism issue, most of the issues we have today would be nullified.   That link while tenuous was not without merit, for the simple fact that Tariq Aziz claimed in 2002 on international television that Iraq provides the families of Palestinian suicide bombers with $10K.  They even gave quarter to Abu Nidal, who incidentally was assassinated in Baghdad in the summer of 2002.

I'm not as yet convinced that there were secondary explosions to indicate that additional bombs had been planted into either of the two towers.  I am convinced between the four points above that there is no simple explanation about 911 from the research others are presenting.  The odds of all four of these being coincidental are pretty astronomical simply on the air force point alone. 

I consider the US military to be among the best in the world, even when it is at its worst.  I never really stopped to look at how or why the air force wouldn't have responded to four planes leaving their flight paths and refusing to return over 30 - 90 minutes.  I think the Air Force is remarkably efficient, and from a little bit of experience with them.  If they had actually responded to at least one of the planes... that would be one story, but all four? 

If I listened to the sane people who said I would be nuts just for even considering that the official story was wrong... then that would not be too different from never questioning Papal Infallibility.
« Last Edit: 00:37 28-Apr-2009 by MWDabbs »
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Offline MWDabbs

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Re: The continuing GOP slide into absurdity
« Reply #12 on: 03:51 02-May-2009 »
http://www.bentham-open.org/pages/content.php?TOCPJ/2009/00000002/00000001/7TOCPJ.SGM - I know at least one person on this forum knows what thermite is capable of doing.  This link covers some scientific analysis of dust from the WTC and indicates that some form of thermite was present.  What that means exactly is open to question, but applying that "simplest explanation" idea starts getting a lot more complicated pretty fast.
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Offline Madrigal

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Re: The continuing GOP slide into absurdity
« Reply #13 on: 04:59 02-May-2009 »
My two cents:

I do not necessarily believe that is was a super plot hatched by a secret panel of cloak wearing baby sacrificing extremists seeking out to control the entire world with their inbred bloodlines (ok ok so I have studied some secret societies and some elitist family bloodlines and yes SOME of the things you hear are true, not many however).

Some things that just don't sit well with me about the whole 9/11 happenings.

#1. The largest put positions in the history of American Airlines were put on the stock less than 48hours before 9/11 attacks. (someone knew something and it didn't come from a store bought "Magic 8-ball".)

#2. Some of the MOST influential and powerful people who worked in the towers and "rarely" took days off somehow all seemed to have decided to take the day off.

#3. I know people that work in private Aviation and have for over thirty years and they still think it is absolutely preposterous that 2 large commercial air crafts go "silent" for as long as they did without some serious redflags coming up.

#4. The government has even made "Dummy" mockups terrifyingly similar to the 9/11 proceedings in 1962
See Operation Northwoods http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/news/20010430/doc1.pdf
 So it is not like they were not prepared or had never A.) Thought of such scenariors and B.) Even created Hollywood quality real conspiracies themselves, this used to be Classified people, don't comment on it unless you read it in its entirety.


There are a lot of conspiracies out there, but then again there are a lot of FACTS as well, facts that to a logical mind just do not make any sense at all. These are the things I often ponder, I think a good "Theory" (let's drop the conspiracy for a second) is that there could have been political agendas to invade the Middle East for a long time, some onerous acronym caught wind of a planned strike and said "Hmm Opportunity" maybe we should just turn a blind eye, this is just the ticket we need to get the public to seed away their liberties, let us monitor their every move and give us free reign to do whatever the hell we want!

I think this is a much more plausible scenario than the ones I see floating around on all these DVD websites.

Remember, in Chinese the Character for Crisis and Opportunity are the same thing....

We can all say that anyone who thinks that the USA would knowingly do such a thing to its people willfully, well they are just plain insane of course.

On the other hand several years into the Vietnam Conflict (it was never officially a war, but a police action) when our powers that be at that present time realized we never had a snowball's chance in hell of victory they continued to pluck young boys fresh from High School, give them a few weeks of training and toss them into a Guerrilla warfare meatgrinder. That sounds equally as insane to me and it was a reality, a very tragic one wrought with PTSD suicides post war, handicapped veterans and a general lack of compassion for these drafted soldiers.

Iraq and Afghanistan do not hold a candle to Vietnam but we are getting to that point now that many of our current generations have forgotten these atrocities in Asia so it was the right time to start another. What did we learn from WWI? Ehh, nothing really, how about WWII hmmm I wouldn't guess that we really learned too much more as a species really wars are just now more of the financial kind than ones with bullets and missles.

Technology has kind of removed the fun of sending the blue collars to the trenches because too many countries have an unfair advantage.

The saying "One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter" is actually quite true, it just depends on which side of the fence you are on in regards to which is the terrorist and which is the freedom fighter.

Thomas Jefferson in the eyes of the British government = Terrorist
Thomas Jefferson in the eyes of a colonist = Hero and Freedom Fighter

Try to deny that fact and you are just a hypocrite haha.

9/11 made me sick to watch, I had several friends who had their lives altered forever (one of my good friends still gets white knuckles when we are in Manhattan and he is riding the elevator past the 20th floor).

However, I am a student of history and no one ever seems to recall the greatest terrorist attack in American History (the attempted genocide and all but successful extinction of the Native American People, yet no one ever talks about them really ever, I guess Native American's are second rate human beings that deserved the first fully documented and accepted biological warfare attacks (Smallpox blankets given to them as gifts in the winter).

I guess in America there are not more and more museums and memorials for Natives because in order to do so we would have to freely and openly not only admit but embrace that as Americans our ancestors brutally raped, murdered and maimed Indian men, women and children without remorse. Yuck!!! Turn on sponge bob kids and get ready for bed, we are going to Disneyland tomorrow that is a lot happier than thinking about them darn Indians!!

Sorry I jumped off topic, just got excited  ::)


In closing however, if someone can find me irrefutable PROOF that there has ever been a victory against guerrilla warfare by the invader (the organized military body, Example: Russia vs Afghanistan) and can provide this to me for me to read, evaluate and understand I will buy them a beer when I get to Odessa two weeks from now.


M
Идеальная жена - как таракан.  Её видишь или ночью, или на кухне.

Online David Rochlin

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Re: The continuing GOP slide into absurdity
« Reply #14 on: 05:29 02-May-2009 »
http://www.bentham-open.org/pages/content.php?TOCPJ/2009/00000002/00000001/7TOCPJ.SGM - I know at least one person on this forum knows what thermite is capable of doing.  This link covers some scientific analysis of dust from the WTC and indicates that some form of thermite was present.  What that means exactly is open to question, but applying that "simplest explanation" idea starts getting a lot more complicated pretty fast.

The British Navy discovered during the Falklands War, much to its dismay, that when subjected to extremely high temperatures, a ship made from aluminum can catch fire and burn like, well thermite.
Thermite is fairly simple in its composition, and all the metals required, are common building materials used in any building in large quantities.  Aluminum, Iron, Chromium, Silicon Copper and so on.  It seems more likely that the authors are simply examining various amalgams of metals that have a dual use.  Yes, they can be used to make thermite, but... The World Trade Center was made out of them.

Another matter to consider.  The amount of thermite required to burn through the major support columns of one of the towers and melt the quantities of metal that were melted in them, and cause the kind of persistent fires that went on for weeks,  is not tons, but tens of tons of thermite.
It just would not be an efficient way to destroy a building.  Thermite is used for small military and civilian jobs.  I don't know of any case where anyone would choose thermite for either a civilian or military application, where tons of the stuff would be applied, let alone inside a large building, near the top.  

http://www.debunking911.com/thermite.htm