Author Topic: Dinner with Obama, a Parable  (Read 3889 times)

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Offline P-N

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Re: Dinner with Obama, a Parable
« Reply #15 on: 13:49 29-Jul-2009 »
In keeping with the parable, seemingly the majority when he was elected would be happy to eat with him, regardless of the cost of the dinner.  Such is democracy......or democracy as per the US Republic style.

If he turns out to be a failure, he will not be the first failure to hold that office from either side in the last 230 years or so of US independence.  He will be one of the few to hold the office in particulary difficult times internally for the USA.

He has chosen a route (with some serious advice behind him one would hope) which may or may not fail but will certainly leave a financial legacy to the next generation.  It is however, a legacy which will be left to many generations of many nations......and nothing peculiar to the USA during that period to come.

If he turns out to be a failure, he will not be the first failure to be endured for the term of office.......excepting those assassinated in office.......such is democracy as per US Republic style.

There is nobody from any political party in any nation in the West (in power or in opposition) which would be capable of dealing with this any better.....although they may have a different solution......which you would agree with and others not.

Anyone who thinks any politician of any nation can come into a financial mess of this magnitude and put it right within even 2 years is sadly dilluded and simply does not understand that economic policies and legacies take years to work through systems regardless of who makes the policies or what they are, in good times or in bad.

As nobody on the planet has "managed" a situation of such financial magnitude before........unless they are exceptionally old......there is nobody experienced to put it right with the knowledge that they know what they are doing 100%.

As economists and financial "guru's" were split on how best to put things right when this episode first started, it is only natural the public are split.......but nobody knows the right answer.....for certain.

Then also added into the mix, is those who caused the problems are not only reluctant to have any form of additional oversight, let alone regulation, in any country put upon them.  It is these same people who are trying to get commodities, shares, house prices et al back to the level they were pre-financial crisis.....when in reality the crisis, theoretically, will have brought these things down to their "true worth" rather than "bubble worth".

Now there are bankers, stock exchange traders, and qualified economists on the forum......but not one of them is criticising any particular politician, government or policy.....at least openly on the forum.....as none of these members have been in this situation before either......despite the fact they have more "theoretical knowledge" than the majority of the other members (myself included).

As the basic theories for and against a particular method of dealing with the current situation are well and truly in the public domain.....and certain countries, governments and leaders have chosen to follow specific routes to deal with this issue.......unless there is somebody here with the economic and financial genius to provide the answers which have obviously been missed by these leaders, governments and their advisors and are radically different solutions to the problems.....then all we can do is sit and wait to see which route worked better than others.

The US contingent of the board have less room to complain than any others.  This crisis started before your Presidential election, you knew about it and whilst knowing about it you chose your leader democratically to lead you through it.

The UK, Germany, France, Japan, China, Brazil, India etc etc all had leaders in place mid term when this crisis occured and have not had the chance to elect a leader to take them through it but have had to be lead by those already in power......and who were put there on other platforms than economics or awareness of financial melt-downs.

The US made a choice of leader in the full knowledge of the crisis.....where as the majority of nations did not.  The US therefore has less room for complaint than anyone else.....unless they are decrying their style of democracy of course.

Obama will face defeats both at home and abroad.......just as GW failed with NATO members with regards to the Bucharest Summit in 2008 with regards to Ukraine, Gergia and NATO.  The days of nations going along with US policy without question are gone......and went during the tenureship of GWB.  Internally in the US.....defeats on policy are also equally guaranteed.....unless the US is really an autocracy.  There is no true democracy on earth in which a political party in power always wins every debate as nobody has a monopoly on good ideas.

If anything, the recent Democrat v Republican "debates" has shown me (Mr Ignorant) just how fragmented, frictional and polorised Americans really are.  "One Great Nation"?.......apparently not according to the citizens themselves.  Fighter for "democracy around the globe".....who's democracy, Rep or Dem as seemingly, even after a democratic vote there is no acceptance or unity upon the result......."Economic giant?"......nothing like it was pre-Iraq and it will decades to regain the influence it held then......if it can be done at all.  "American Dream".....it seems one US citizen's "dream" is anothers "nightmare".

The decline of a once great and respected nation cannot be placed on the current leadership alone (if at all considering it has only been in office 6 months.....and there are very few political policies which if instigated six months ago would have a significant effect as of today in the grand scheme of things - they all take time to work through the system).

So, to the Democrats on the board, a belated congratulations on the victory, I hope that whatever you expect to happen comes to happen.  For the Republicans on the board, my comiserations but that is the democracy which is coveted by many nations which don't have it.  

Does anyone seriously think they could do a better job than the leaders of the governments around the world in relation to this finanical mess.....regardless of which route they took to tackle it?

  

"When surrounded by the dark void of the willfully blind, it does not excuse those that are a spark of light their duty to shine" - Me

Offline MWDabbs

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Re: Dinner with Obama, a Parable
« Reply #16 on: 16:08 29-Jul-2009 »
Americathon

Actually, I do think that it would be easier to do a better job with the US Government.  Absolutely, positively, without a doubt.  No questions, no hesitations. 

It starts with reading bills before signing them into law.  A reasonably intelligent sophomore could probably do that. 

That applies to both Congress on the Stimulus Package; and Obama on Health Care, as there are multiple version of it floating between the House and Senate, and he doesn't know or care what is in it as long as a Health Care Bill is passed.

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modified to take out double link and to fix last sentence that got cut.
« Last Edit: 16:10 29-Jul-2009 by MWDabbs »
We cannot afford governments that cannot afford to take care of our veterans.

richardm

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Re: Dinner with Obama, a Parable
« Reply #17 on: 23:28 29-Jul-2009 »
I have to be honest and say that in the UK you will find hardly anyone who agrees with or supports George Bush, the only exceptions to this are the ultra conservative or have some specific religious leaning eg mormons, jehovahs witnesses etc

For that matter I cant think of anyone from any another country for that matter who has a good word for George Bush let alone an ounce of support.

Just an FYI, not everyone that dis-agrees with obummer is white either. Dr. Manning seems to be "of color". I disagree with all the racial remarks that he uses but I think that "working familys" could have been easily substituted instead.

And not everyone that disagrees with Bush is an American Democrat either. Russian Democrats too! :D

Hail Zhirinovsky!!

Жириновский Бушу (знаменитое обращение)


Offline Packman

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Re: Dinner with Obama, a Parable
« Reply #18 on: 23:48 29-Jul-2009 »
I have to be honest and say that in the UK you will find hardly anyone who agrees with or supports George Bush, the only exceptions to this are the ultra conservative or have some specific religious leaning eg mormons, jehovahs witnesses etc

For that matter I cant think of anyone from any another country for that matter who has a good word for George Bush let alone an ounce of support.

Just an FYI, not everyone that dis-agrees with obummer is white either. Dr. Manning seems to be "of color". I disagree with all the racial remarks that he uses but I think that "working familys" could have been easily substituted instead.

And not everyone that disagrees with Bush is an American Democrat either. Russian Democrats too! :D

Hail Zhirinovsky!!

Жириновский Бушу (знаменитое обращение)


There is one place where GW Bush is held in good stead...drum roll...(I'm not kidding)...Iraqi Kurdistan!

Carlusha

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Re: Dinner with Obama, a Parable
« Reply #19 on: 11:35 30-Jul-2009 »

There is one place where GW Bush is held in good stead...drum roll...(I'm not kidding)...Iraqi Kurdistan!


Dick Cheney and the Haliburton shareholders must also hold GWB in high esteem.

Offline P-N

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Re: Dinner with Obama, a Parable
« Reply #20 on: 11:46 30-Jul-2009 »
Probably not Carl........the biggest Iraqi oil field went to BP  :D :D :D
"When surrounded by the dark void of the willfully blind, it does not excuse those that are a spark of light their duty to shine" - Me

Carlusha

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Re: Dinner with Obama, a Parable
« Reply #21 on: 13:02 30-Jul-2009 »
Probably not Carl........the biggest Iraqi oil field went to BP  :D :D :D

I understood Haliburton were raking in the $$$$ all during the so-called "war" with their weird tendering efforts. What do I know?

Offline P-N

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Re: Dinner with Obama, a Parable
« Reply #22 on: 13:40 30-Jul-2009 »
Now during......and up to the date the American military were banned from patrolling in the cities and towns without Iraqi's with them.......you may have a point.........but then I have no idea really who was and wasn't there civilian wise.

Mark will know......he was in Iraq for a good while providing civilian logistical support.......I'm sure he'll put us in the picture from first hand knowledge.
« Last Edit: 14:41 30-Jul-2009 by P-N »
"When surrounded by the dark void of the willfully blind, it does not excuse those that are a spark of light their duty to shine" - Me

Carlusha

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Re: Dinner with Obama, a Parable
« Reply #23 on: 14:02 30-Jul-2009 »
He would have been too busy keeping his head down, given his height!  ::)

As of 2006? http://www.alternet.org/world/41083/?page=entire

Offline MWDabbs

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Re: Dinner with Obama, a Parable
« Reply #24 on: 16:41 30-Jul-2009 »
In 2004, contractor turn over was 75-80% on six months time in country, relative to 1 year contracts.  That started changing in the 2nd half of 2005 and into 2006.  Not sure how it is now, should be better.  It seemed that the worst of KBR folk received management positions, but that was merely a function of being the only people left in their department after five months.  KBR managed all of the contracts/subcontracts; receiving cost +3%.  Subcontractors included EG&G/Lear Siegler, DynCorp, Wackenhut, Bechtel, Lockheed, Motorola, and lots of smaller companies. 

As for the no bid aspect...  while I absolutely hate to say it, there are very few companies with the logistical capacity of Halliburton/KBR.  None of the subcontractors, were in any kind of position to support anything as massive as Iraq.  Covering support and supply for 150,000 military and 120,000+ civilian contractors in over 50 camps scattered throughout a country about the size of California, for 6+ years, by truck is an unbelievably massive undertaking.  Lots of truckers have been killed.

Security on camps was good, only concern was rocket/mortar attacks that usually happened during shift change; but insurgents didn't seem to get change their clock for daylight savings time. 

Base pay for the vast majority of contractors was $14.90/hour or thereabouts and reflected an average wage of comparable positions throughout the United States.  Work was 12 hours day/7 days a week.  No overtime pay.  We did get hazard/foreign differential pay on the first 40 hours of work per week, which did amount to roughly 50% of base; work 84 hours get paid for about 104 or 106.  Higher level techs, supervisors and managers got step ups $16.85/19/21 per hour, think the highest pay at subcontractor level was about $31.50 an hour, except for the program/deputy program managers.

We cannot afford governments that cannot afford to take care of our veterans.