Author Topic: Should Ukraine join the E.U?  (Read 8081 times)

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Offline BritKyiv

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Should Ukraine join the E.U?
« on: 13:23 30-Dec-2007 »
In 2008 we will witness many meetings where Ukraine will be encourage to take more steps towards 'entry' to the EU.
The UK for example is becoming very active in helping Ukraine towards EU membership.

What do you think? Should Ukraine be joining another 'union'?
Is Ukraine ready?  Would it be a positive or a negative step?

The 2nd EU-Ukraine Forum will take place in Kyiv during 27-29 February.
The EU wants to start gauging the level of interest from people.

The Brits will be organising a debate on 28 February to get the views of Expats.

Perhaps there will be many advantages to Ukraine joining the EU.
But what about the disadvantages?

Lets hear your views?


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Offline english.melitopol

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Re: Should Ukraine join the E.U?
« Reply #1 on: 12:35 06-Jan-2008 »
Can you supply more info about this meeting. I am a Brit who has been living in Melitopol for 5 years and I do see any evidence that Ukraine is ready to join the EU.

Offline BritKyiv

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Re: Should Ukraine join the E.U?
« Reply #2 on: 13:08 06-Jan-2008 »
The event is being organised by the British Business Club on Thursday 28 February at 1830
at INTER TV - Admin Building, (6th Floor), 25 Turgenivska Street, Kyiv.
Call the BBCU on 2346781 or email: rbrady@bbcu.com.ua

I hear that Nicholas Soames MP (grandson of Sir Winston Churchill) will be attending.
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Offline Lt. Campers

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Re: Should Ukraine join the E.U?
« Reply #3 on: 13:22 07-Jan-2008 »
Their is a downside to joining the EU, the most obvious being EU membership invariably opens up the countries airports to no Frills airlines like Ryanair and Easyjet - a good and a bad thing depending on your point of view.
Personally I prefer the current state of play where their are no cheap airline links with the UK and ( with the exception of Kiev ) theirs at least two connections to reach other cities in Ukraine.
Eastern european cities like Riga, Prague and Bratislava have already suffered from the unwelcome attentions of undesirables out looking for trouble in the name of Stag and Hen parties.
The second downside is the arrival of carpetbaggers out to make a quick buck by inflating apartment prices just because the Ukrainian resort has a Ryanair link to western europe. Just my personal opinion as it seems grossly unfair to young Ukrainian couples struggling to reach the first rung on the property ladder.
Still on the plus side - it does open up the EU to Ukrainian workers.
The first in the field and the last from the Taverna.

Offline BritKyiv

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Re: Should Ukraine join the E.U?
« Reply #4 on: 13:56 07-Jan-2008 »
Well said Campervan..... I agree and I would HATE to see Kyiv become like Prague and Bratislava and the other 'new member states' which have become play grounds for drunk British tourists.

However, the reasons you put forward are not the kind of things we could present to politicians as valid reasons for NOT joining the EU (Although I know many people argree with you, like me, its not the stuff the men in grey suits will listen to)

On the property side, its the Ukrainians who have already inflated prices in Kyiv without the help of any foreigners. It's going to be interesting to see what happens to the prices of apartments in Western Ukraine, like ski resort chalets etc.

Just thinking that perhaps one of the biggest negatives for most people in Ukraine (if they join the EU), is that the black economy would reduce. Now you may say thats GOOD, but for many Ukrainians they just love the black economy.  OR,heres a thought....maybe Ukraine could introduce the black economy into the rest of the EU...and MORE people would be happy. (Maybe I should stay serious about this topic)

So, lets continue thinking about WHY Ukraine should NOT want to join the EU.??

Anyone else?
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Offline Lt. Campers

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Re: Should Ukraine join the E.U?
« Reply #5 on: 16:19 07-Jan-2008 »
If I was thinking like a typical male chauvenist Ukrainian - then as well as loosing the black economy. He would also have to give up cigarettes, as this would be deemed a distinctly unhealthy habit by the EU beaurocrats who would ban smoking in all public work places, bars, restaurants, cinemas, etc.
Cigarette advertising would also be banned overnight upon EU accession.
All obstructive red tape and paperwork slowing down free trade and the movement of labour between Ukraine and the EU will be severely cut.
The wearing of seat belts would be made compulsory - so no more Ukrainian driver excuses about it being uncomfortable.
Sexual discrimination and sexual harrasment laws would be strictly enforced - no doubt welcomed by all expats who have come across lurid stories from women who have been denied jobs because they refused to engage in sexual favours.
The post Soviet habit of men drowning your sorrows on vodka binges would be replaced by the healthy western habit of doing a full work out in the Gym, jogging, cycling, etc.

The first in the field and the last from the Taverna.

Offline matlockk

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Re: Should Ukraine join the E.U?
« Reply #6 on: 07:20 08-Jan-2008 »
I don't think joining the EU will imediately obliterate a national culture so don't worry, sexual harrassment and vodka binging are safe.

Isn't non smoking in restaurants and seat belt wearing the law anyway? But like a lot of other laws they don't get enforced which I guess is a worry for Brussels. Mind you if the later introduce a directive banning the sale of pointy shoes then I support EU membership.

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Re: Should Ukraine join the E.U?
« Reply #7 on: 12:06 08-Jan-2008 »

pointy toe shoes......

Keith, you crack me up.

Offline Ivans

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Re: Should Ukraine join the E.U?
« Reply #8 on: 16:00 08-Jan-2008 »
To my mind Ukraine and Ukrainians need a very big daddy (preferrably such as NATO and EU from Brussels, not SIC from Moscow) to transfer partly the sovereignty in order to make up the state.

Ukraine stands pat for 17 years  :( ... (where there are two Ukrainians there are three hetmans).
When in Ukraine DO NOT do as Ukrainians do ;D

Offline Claus

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Re: Should Ukraine join the E.U?
« Reply #9 on: 18:56 08-Jan-2008 »
In 1972 I voted 'NO' for Denmark joining the EU - and today I'd repeat that vote.

But as for Ukraine it's a different story - everything to gain and not much to loose - the questions are pretty simple: Is Ukraine part of Europe or part of Asia, is Ukraine independent or a renegade part of Russia, will Ukraine have freedom and democracy, or won't it, is Ukraine a nation and does it want to be that, does Ukraine want to become as rich as it's potential is...
In my opinion, Ukraine must join EU or perish.
Just as the opposite was the case for Denmark - long live Norway!  ;D
j'y suis, j'y reste!

Offline Lt. Campers

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Re: Should Ukraine join the E.U?
« Reply #10 on: 19:21 08-Jan-2008 »
Claus wrote:
Quote
Just as the opposite was the case for Denmark - long live Norway!

Of course a couple of hundred years ago Denmark and Norway were one nation, it would have been interesting to speculate how the vote for EU membership would have gone, if they were still together.

The first in the field and the last from the Taverna.

Offline Packman

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Re: Should Ukraine join the E.U?
« Reply #11 on: 19:43 10-Jan-2008 »
Speaking only from personal bias, I would make it a far more boring place.  Serious bureaucracy, uniformity, less free IMHO. 

Offline Claus

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Re: Should Ukraine join the E.U?
« Reply #12 on: 09:27 11-Jan-2008 »
The European Commission has just announced an agreement whereby English will be the
official language of the European Union rather than German, which was the other
possibility. As part of the negotiations, the British Government conceded that
English spelling had some room for improvement and has accepted a 5- year phase-in
plan that would become known as 'Euro-English'. In the first year, 's' will replace
the soft 'c'. Sertainly, this will make the sivil servants jump with joy. The hard
'c' will be dropped in favour of 'k'. This should klear up konfusion, and keyboards
kan have one less letter. There will be growing publik enthusiasm in the sekond year
when the troublesome 'ph' will be replaced with 'f'. This will make words like
fotograf 20% shorter. In the 3rd year, publik akseptanse of the new spelling kan be
expekted to reach the stage where more komplikated changes are possible. Governments
will enkourage the removal of double letters which have always ben a deterent to
akurate speling. Also, al wil agre that the horibl mes of the silent 'e' in the
languag is disgrasful and it should go away. By the 4th yer people wil be reseptiv
to steps such as replasing 'th' with 'z' and 'w' with 'v'. During ze fifz yer, ze
unesesary 'o' kan be dropd from vords kontaining 'ou' and after ziz fifz yer, ve vil
hav a reil sensi bl riten styl. Zer vil be no mor trubl or difikultis and evrivun
vil find it ezi tu understand ech oza. Ze drem of a united urop vil finali kum tru.
Und efter ze fifz yer, ve vil al be speking German like zey vunted in ze forst plas.
If zis mad you smil, pleas pas on to oza pepl
j'y suis, j'y reste!

Offline BritKyiv

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It would be great to find someone who could offer some valid reasons for Ukraine NOT to want to join the EU club?

Or maybe it is such a GREAT idea, that no one can think of any reasons not to join.

I wonder if there is an Anti- EU movement in Ukraine???

Ukraine's entry into the WTO later this year (maybe?) will be a good indicator of future steps forward or backwards. Its about time that Ukraine abolished export duties. YES, they still charge companies for exporting goods, can you believe that?
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Offline Claus

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Re: Should Ukraine join the E.U?
« Reply #14 on: 22:44 13-Jan-2008 »
Well, as for 'why not join'..
First, please understand that I'm Danish and totally opposed to the EU and to Denmark being part of it; we should have taken the Norwegian option (see above).
Second, also please understand that I think that the EU is a must for Ukraine (again, see above).
All right?
Then, by joining
- Ukraine will lose affinity to an important part of its past culture
- many (about 37%) of Ukrainians will be separated from their 'mother people'
- the many ukrainians living and working in Russia will have huge problems
- perhaps (it's not realistic, but the average ukrainian will fear that) Russia will start playing hard-ball.

Furthermore, it seems as if the EU will demand that Ukraine joins NATO before it is admitted to EU (which was in reality demanded of all former COMECON/Warschau-pact countries too!). That may be a little bit stiff to swallow for one of the former 'independent' republics of the Union of Soviet Republics.

On top of that there is a problem of religion, or rather a lot of problems. Inside Ukraine there is this fight between the Moscow church and the Kyiv church (or whatever); and to join the EU means to recognise catholihcs, calvinists, lutherans, and more as true believers - and for the severe, elderly, female believer, this really matters very much.

Still, Ukraine should join - again refer above - or perish.

But, it's not so simple, see?  ;D
« Last Edit: 22:50 13-Jan-2008 by Claus »
j'y suis, j'y reste!