Author Topic: 'country clubs' and separate 'villages' for new-rich people  (Read 2934 times)

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Offline Claus

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For business-possibility reasons  :P I need to know:
Do we have these imitated 'country-clubs' and protected 'pseudo-villages' in Ukraine (I know they exist in Russia, USA, France, and Greece - but here)? If yes, could you please give me names, locations, here in Ukraine (if possible also www-links to homepages, if any)?
Thanks for helping by answering the question!

j'y suis, j'y reste!

Offline P-N

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In Odessa yes called Sovenen numbered 1,2,3 and 4. American company pretty much building all and running all of number 2. Can get all the details next time i see their boss if Odessa is of interest to you. I take it you mean with permanent security and shops etc.
"When surrounded by the dark void of the willfully blind, it does not excuse those that are a spark of light their duty to shine" - Me

Offline Claus

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Thanks!
Details not needed, just a homepage or so - if you have it.
j'y suis, j'y reste!

Offline dazure

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Digressing. I have seen these compounds in Odessa. In New Zealand we call them 'fortress suburbs'.
Low key over there at the moment but security will become much tighter over the years street violence gets worse there.
Mostly in Odessa I fear the unmarked hole in the ground, not that someone,
angry at the world, will take offence because they think that I am
looking at them the wrong way as can happen back home.


Offline Lt. Campers

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Perceptions of Gated villages & communities
« Reply #5 on: 00:16 26-Jan-2008 »
Gated towns and villages are nothing new and in some locations can look almost surreal.
Of course we have all heard of the russian oligarchs who have their own gated community
outside moscow where you will find mock english town houses and reproduction french
mansions.
Naturally they are only following a historical precedent, anyone who has seen episodes of
the British empire in colour, on the history channel, would have marvelled at film scenes of
English villages built in India & Malaysia for British teaplanters and their families that look like
London suburbia of the 1950's.
The only problem being, the people who live their can feel divorced from the real world,
all nicely tucked away in their " little England " and their were plenty of " little Englands "
dotted around the world, nothing wrong with that - but when the natives are restless,
watch out !!! - perhaps thats why the British Empire fell ?
Of course this behaviour was amply illustrated in the Steven Spielberg movie, Empire
of the Sun. A semi autobiographical account of an English schoolboy living with a
priviledged family in a 'London suburbia sector' of Shanghai, just before it fell to the
Japanese during the second world war.

« Last Edit: 00:24 26-Jan-2008 by Campervan »
The first in the field and the last from the Taverna.

Offline matlockk

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I went to one of these places just outside Moscow at New Year. No oligarch though(they live in St Tropez) just a guy who owned an air freight business. All the Russians were foaming at the mouth at the beauty of it but I had to bite my lips as it was basically a large Barratt House with no garden. I tried to explain that in England someone with $10m to spare on a house would buy a 200 year old large gentlemens residence in 20 acres. I guess however compared to a 70 sqm apartment in Yugo Zapadnaya this is luxury. Nice people though. We polished off a bottle of Chiva Regal and being Georgian he cooked a mean meal.

Offline P-N

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I should point out that the places i mention in Odessa are not exclusive expat compounds and are mostly bought by the rich ukraine. The american outfit must also make all their buildings look similar. Red roof white walls etc. Most have outdoor pools etc. Selling here at a minimum of $1.5M per house without problem.
"When surrounded by the dark void of the willfully blind, it does not excuse those that are a spark of light their duty to shine" - Me

Offline Lt. Campers

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Quote
Selling here at a minimum of $1.5M per house without problem
$1.5M for a place in Odessa, surely they are taking the mickey !! No with that amount of money
I can think of half a dozen places and more on the coast or near the ski resort of Bankso in
Bulgaria where you could spend $1.5M for a salubrious pad and still have change.
« Last Edit: 09:21 26-Jan-2008 by Campervan »
The first in the field and the last from the Taverna.

Offline P-N

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I agree with you as do many i ukraine i know here. Many others would disagree which is why they are selling !  From my professional point of view the interior design of these homes also fall way short of the price tag. Probably why even though i build houses so as not to be bored and not as a business i have people waiting for me to build them. Also i tell them to choose a design from any magazine and i will build it with whatever changes are necessary to meet their wish list. Dont need to advertise as word of mouth is more than i can cope with unless i turn it into i business :)
"When surrounded by the dark void of the willfully blind, it does not excuse those that are a spark of light their duty to shine" - Me

Offline P-N

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The Ukraines I am building a house for in Sovenen got a shock today.

Someone turned up saying they owe $16700 for roads, electric, gas and water supply plus $500 pcm for the security.

After my immediate "chuckle" to myself (as I dislike Sovenen) and them turning to me in a look of shock and horror, I looked at their paperwork regarding the purchase of the land. 

The paperwork is all quite correct and above board for the land.  The house I am building for them sits nicely inside their plot with the necessary permissions etc.

Thus far no "facilities management" contract exists between my clients and Sovenen to my (or more to the point, their) knowledge.

I then asked the "nice man in the suit" what the money was for and was told for the exisiting roads, electric, gas and water mains to the plot of land.

Now I know in Ukraine, sometimes individuals pay for these things and get % reimbursement from others as they move into the street "on a gentlemans agreement basis" but this is usually in respect of the roads.  Gas, electric, water etc is monies allocated by Government/Local Government and the utilities put in on receipt of the funds by "nominated  ::)" companies.  Only a charge for connection is paid by the land owner which is fair enough.

On this street alone there are some 40 houses (about 10% of the houses in Sovenen).

I pointed out to my clients and the "nice man in the suit" that 40 x $16700 = $668000 and the road could be made from gold plated blocks for this price.  (The average price for a road 800 meters long x 10 meters wide here should be no more than $20,000 maximum).

He became quite insistant so I advised my clients to pay nothing what-so-ever and advised the "nice man in the suit" to take my clients to court if he felt he had a case.

I also pointed out for 3 security men 365 days a year $500 x 400 houses (with many still being build to add to the mathematics) = $200,000 pcm was also very expensive as for $500 you can buy an alarm system monitored by the local police.

He eventually left and stomped off to the Sovenen office.

Whether I have given sound advice or not remains to be seen, but I also told my clients not to employ an advacat just yet and let Sovenen spend their money first (god knows they have enough if they are scamming all the new-rich like this  ::)) and make the first move.

Just thought I'd let you all know so anyone considering these enclosed developments ask the questions before they buy land or houses therein regarding these "hidden" costs.

For my clients it would be cheaper for Sovenen to dig up the road outside their home and me replace it with exactly the same materials for $2000 !!! :o



"When surrounded by the dark void of the willfully blind, it does not excuse those that are a spark of light their duty to shine" - Me

Offline SilverBullet

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For less than $1.5MM I could find a really nice place in Ukraine with excellent security. I lived next to a high ranking police official in Kharkiv, his single family home in the city center was fenced off with high concrete walls. His security was some mean dobermans patroling the grounds all day. They were barking as soon as they heard someone outside the wall. I had no desire to enter that compond  :) 

For someone prepared to spend $1.5MM, one could spend less and hire some body guards/private security force. More personal attention that way than in a gated community ;D

In the USA gated communities are a must in some areas. Take Houston for instance, due to the high crime I would only consider living gated there. That said, Texas is not my piece of cake.  ;D
В чужо́й монасты́рь со свои́м уста́вом не хо́дят.
When in Rome, do as the Romans do.

Век живи́ — век учи́сь.
Live and learn.