Author Topic: A 25 year old judge? WTF? How did this slip by the forum?  (Read 4721 times)

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Offline BritKyiv

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The case against Yevhen Korniychuk

Everyone is focusing on the trial of Yulia Tymoshenko. But there are others who are being investigated and who are still in detention.

Yevhen Korniychuk is a lawyer by profession, specializing in international finance and business law. He was elected to Parliament and became in 2006 chairman of the Ukrainian Social Democratic Party, following his father in law Vasyl Onopenko, a judge by profession who was elected president of the Ukrainian Supreme Court. From 2007 -2010 he was First Deputy Minister of Justice in the Yulia Timoshenko government.

He is charged with violation of art. 365, paragraph 3, of the Ukrainian Criminal Code (excess of authority or official powers that caused grave consequences) for in his capacity of First Deputy Minister of Justice having issued a legal opinion or law interpretation about the possible use of a single-source public procurement procedure. It concerned the procurement by the National Joint Venture Company ?Naftogaz? of legal assistance to be provided by the legal firm Magisters, at which Mr. Korniychuk used to be a senior partner, however at that time had no longer financial or business contact.

The formal permission to use this procedure was given by the Ministry of Economy and the contract was signed by Naftogaz. He is also charged with having violated Article 366, paragraph 2 (forgery in office that caused grave consequences) as the mentioned document was not properly filed in the Ministry of Justice. His actions are claimed to have brought losses to the state as other legal firms could have supplied the legal assistance at a lower cost.

Here is the rub. The judge dealing with his case is a 25 year old woman.
A 25 year old judge is dealing with one of the most important ?political? cases in Ukraine.
WTF?



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Offline P-N

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The issue is, BK, hardly anybody cares within Ukraine and hardly anybody cares externally of Ukraine.  Before you jump all over me and say that isn't true, I will provide evidence as far as the EU community goes.

However, before going on to that, are you sure you want to use this description when rasing your concerns over this issue?


Yevhen Korniychuk is a lawyer by profession, specializing in international finance and business law. He was elected to Parliament and became in 2006 chairman of the Ukrainian Social Democratic Party, following his father in law Vasyl Onopenko, a judge by profession who was elected president of the Ukrainian Supreme Court. From 2007 -2010 he was First Deputy Minister of Justice in the Yulia Timoshenko government.

He is charged with violation of art. 365, paragraph 3, of the Ukrainian Criminal Code (excess of authority or official powers that caused grave consequences) for in his capacity of First Deputy Minister of Justice having issued a legal opinion or law interpretation about the possible use of a single-source public procurement procedure. It concerned the procurement by the National Joint Venture Company ?Naftogaz? of legal assistance to be provided by the legal firm Magisters, at which Mr. Korniychuk used to be a senior partner, however at that time had no longer financial or business contact.

Those two paragraphs are a summary of what was wrong with Ukraine under Tymoshenko and is still wrong with Ukraine under Yanukovych.

It is a seemingly blatant case of nepotism (if not possible corruption).  It screams his father-in-law did this and got that and on the back of that, son-in-law got this and got that as well.  It of course doesn't end there for a skeptical Ukrainian public well used to the patronage system employed by the elites, they would not be surprised that Magisters got the contract.  

Whether he got his positions by being the most worthy or not makes little difference to a public used to elitist patronage systems looking after their own via nepotism.  When the wheel falls of the nepotism wagon, the public aren't going to care when they are rightly or wrongly put to the sword.

When it comes to Tymoshenko, it is not much different for the EU community at the levels that count (ie governments).

Here is a quote from tomorrow's, as yet unpublished blog, from a conversation I had with a few EU Odessa based diplomats on Sunday:

"What came next was something of a surprise however.  A certain diplomat (again off the record) stated that the ratifications of any agreements should not be based on anything that happens to Tymoshenko but on the elections in 2012 being accepted as free and fair by the international community and international monitors.

The question I asked was obviously why Tymoshenko was irrelevant given that she may well be barred from any elections (although of course her party will not be barred and at most she would only regain a seat in the RADA rather than any position of power if she was not barred).

The answer was that hardly anybody amongst the diplomatic luminary circles really thinks of Tymoshenko as a champion of democracy and thus she is not as relevant as free and fair (and internationally recognised as such) elections in October 2012.   Those elections, rather than her fate, are therefore the key event to the ratification of the DCFTA and AA."


Now because what is quoted was off the record, I obviously cannot name the country let alone the diplomat who said this and thus you may doubt its authenticity.  However I can quote a different source with similar thoughts:

"For Yanukovych, the Tymoshenko trial is also the test of how Russia and Europe will react. In that case, the German response is likely to be muted because many do not see Tymoshenko as a genuine fighter for democracy." - Andreas Stein, the editor of Ukraine Nachrichten.

The net result is Tymoshenko and team are not that important and not seen as the guardians of democracy by the people that count in the EU.  They are all aware that none of them are angelic and many got where they were through corruption and nepotism and their return to power would just continue the cycle which is continuing under Yanukovych anyway.

In short, it is rather hard for anyone of real clout to say Tymoshenko is innocent and none of them have.  There will not be much sympathy for this chap either as many will think he got where he did, not on his own merit but by nepotism, and then used the system for personal gain when he got there.

That is not to say the interest in the rule of law is not there from the EU nations and diplomatic corps.  That is definitely there, but it is based on the structure and process not on the personalities being tried.

I suppose it's what happens when you are a product of nepotism and corruption being put on the rack by nepotism and corruption.  All the outsiders are interested in is the way the system is seen to work and if they are in accordance with their norms of process.  The personalities are irrelevant to the process.

Many on the inside of Ukraine are just happy to see some elites and their patronage system getting shafted.  The rights and wrongs are besides the point for many.

« Last Edit: 00:20 16-Aug-2011 by P-N »
"When surrounded by the dark void of the willfully blind, it does not excuse those that are a spark of light their duty to shine" - Me

Carlusha

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Innocent or not, I chanced upon this on the PoR website!

http://www.partyofregions.org.ua/en/news/politinform/show/4819

I quote some of the bull poop, "Tymoshenko is being judged because in 2009 she forged the documents of national importance ....".

I am no fan of the braided witch but surely this is blatant prejudication by the PoR for, at this point in time, the witch stands (or in her case, sits) accused. The PoR site, representing the government's view, no less, states she did forge documents.

I believe the whole trial would be thrown out immediately in a true democratic country.

Offline BritKyiv

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Well Nick, thanks for that.  ::)

THE POINT IS, i was referring to the case being dealt with by a 25 year old Judge!!!!
How can a 25 year old have enough legal training and experience to deal with this case?
Anyone know of any other country where 25 year old's are judges?????

I think most of us are concerned about the rule of law (or lack of it) and how all these trials
are just a sham.

Try taking a few steps back and thinking.....'How would this go down in a real civilised country with real laws'?
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Offline P-N

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Well Nick, thanks for that.  ::)

THE POINT IS, i was referring to the case being dealt with by a 25 year old Judge!!!!
How can a 25 year old have enough legal training and experience to deal with this case?
Anyone know of any other country where 25 year old's are judges?????

I think most of us are concerned about the rule of law (or lack of it) and how all these trials
are just a sham.

Try taking a few steps back and thinking.....'How would this go down in a real civilised country with real laws'?

Yeh thanks for that BK  ::)

How about taking a step back and thinking, this is Ukraine and their county as you regularly point out.  

It is their people, their laws and their system.  They have had 20 years and Euro hundreds of millions to change the legal process and justice system but haven't (and that opportunity to change the system includes the people now on the painful end it).  

Did they when in power, to quote you, "Try taking a few steps back and thinking.....'How would this go down in a real civilised country with real laws'?" - No they didn't is quite obviously the answer.

The elites from all parties were happy with the system when they weren't subject to it (due to political deputy immunity) but allowed it to continue to run roughshod for every other man, woman and child in Ukraine just the same.  Due to the actions of Yanukovych the chances of ever seeing that immunity that goes with being a RADA member removed have disappeared and so to have any chances of a transparent and meaningful move to an independent judicial system.

For there to be revenge (when it comes) BYuT will need an equally politically controlled and bought off judiciary.

Would they have been bothered that a 25 year old judge was dealing with any particular case as long as it wasn't affecting them?  Of course not as it would have been their nepotism that put them there.

Would you prefer a 40 or 50 year old judge who is already bought and paid for several times over?

Would the outcome be any different?

25, 35 or 45, what difference does it make if the outcome is preordained?

The personalities, positions they obtained via their family links and ages involved are an irrelevance.  The system and process are corrupted and always have been.  The only people that will change that system are the Ukrainians themselves and that is something they have adamantly refused to do in 20 years despite promises to the contrary and huge amounts of direct (and controlled) EU cash.

It really wouldn't matter if it was a chimp sat in the judges chair (of any age) until there is some faith in the judicial system.  The fact is, there isn't much faith in it and never has been, so even if there was an honest judge who did stick to due process and the letter of the law, whatever verdict was reached would still be perceived as being bought by someone.

Yes this female judge is young, this may even be her first trial (who knows), undoubtedly she has some very well connected family or friends, but would the result be any different from a 40 year old judge?

Would the defendant prefer this judge or another older one to go head to head with?  (I doubt this unfortunate woman asked for this case to be given to her after all).

Is there a minimum age for a judge is Ukraine?  Obviously the system to become a judge is not the same as many European nations as it very much depends on nepotism which is my point above.

Who are we to complain that those who got into positions of power via nepotism are then subject to proceedings under a judge aged 25 years who probably got there the same way?

Maybe, being so young, she will actually stick to due process and the letter of the law far more closely than a middle-aged bought and paid for judge?  (Wishful thinking I know as nepotism puts people in position regardless of any ability)

If she finds him not guilty, will her age count against her then, or will we be sat here writing there should be far more young and idealistic judges acting as the law dictates and on the evidence before them rather than a presupposed result?
« Last Edit: 01:04 16-Aug-2011 by P-N »
"When surrounded by the dark void of the willfully blind, it does not excuse those that are a spark of light their duty to shine" - Me

Offline P-N

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The PoR site, representing the government's view, no less, states she did forge documents.

Maybe not quite all the government Carl.  That would be like saying the Conservative website represents the UK government's view when it obviously doesn't as it is a coalition with the Libs.

Lest we forget, there are people like Tigipko in government who is not PoR.

Actually, Tigipko hasn't said much about this whole circus.  Wise man.  My favourite (Yatseniuk) hasn't said that much either.  Seems the political maturity is with these politicians whilst the old guard fight tooth and nail in the autumn of their political relevance.

"When surrounded by the dark void of the willfully blind, it does not excuse those that are a spark of light their duty to shine" - Me

Offline P-N

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You must be psychic Carl.

No sooner have I written that Tigipko is not PoR then not less than 12 hours later I am told that Tigipko's Strong Ukraine party will officially merge/join/become part of PoR in the near future.

Didn't see that coming to be honest.
"When surrounded by the dark void of the willfully blind, it does not excuse those that are a spark of light their duty to shine" - Me

Carlusha

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You must be psychic Carl.

No sooner have I written that Tigipko is not PoR then not less than 12 hours later I am told that Tigipko's Strong Ukraine party will officially merge/join/become part of PoR in the near future.

Didn't see that coming to be honest.

My crystal ball saw a pile of spondulicks!

Offline P-N

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Given Azarov by all accounts is only due to remain Prime Minister until the next election, my crystal ball sees somebody lining themselves up to be the next Prime Minister in 2012.
"When surrounded by the dark void of the willfully blind, it does not excuse those that are a spark of light their duty to shine" - Me

Offline MWDabbs

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I respectfully decline any interest to be Prime Minister in 2012. 
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Offline EnglishMKyiv

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I don't think a 25 y.o judge is that scary.

In the Uk Ed Milliband looks like he is 25 as well .... and he wants to be prime minister!!

Maybe Ed should try and be a judge first - that white wig would make him look a bit older.
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Offline vumpel03

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Here is the rub. The judge dealing with his case is a 25 year old woman.
A 25 year old judge is dealing with one of the most important ?political? cases in Ukraine.
WTF?


I think the reason she got it is that she's the most junior judge in this court.  It was exactly the same situation with a good friend of mine who is also a judge.  She was the most junior judge at her court and was assigned a case no other judge wanted to touch.  She asked me what to do and I advised her to do what the judges are supposed to do: decide their cases  in accordance with the rule and letter of the law. 

Offline MWDabbs

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I think the reason she got it is that she's the most junior judge in this court.  It was exactly the same situation with a good friend of mine who is also a judge.  She was the most junior judge at her court and was assigned a case no other judge wanted to touch.  She asked me what to do and I advised her to do what the judges are supposed to do: decide their cases  in accordance with the rule and letter of the law. 

Now that's probably the most astute assessment I've heard of the Ukrainian court system I've heard, completely logical and understandable.   

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Offline Tim

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Here is the rub. The judge dealing with his case is a 25 year old woman.
A 25 year old judge is dealing with one of the most important ?political? cases in Ukraine.
WTF?

The think I don't understand is why you care. You are not Ukrainian, this is not your country, and you definitely know not that much about it. Let Ukrainians take care of their own business. I believe most people in Ukraine are already sick of aliens coming from the thick air and starting teaching them how to live. 20 years is more than enough. And this is especially disturbing when comes from people whose government are so far from perfection.
« Last Edit: 15:53 24-Aug-2011 by Tim »

Offline vumpel03

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Here is the rub. The judge dealing with his case is a 25 year old woman.
A 25 year old judge is dealing with one of the most important ?political? cases in Ukraine.
WTF?

The think I don't understand is why you care. You are not Ukrainian, this is not your country, and you definitely know not that much about it. Let Ukrainians take care of their own business. I believe most people here are already sick of aliens coming from the thick air and starting teaching them how to live. 20 years is more than enough. And this is especially disturbing when comes from people whose government are so far from perfection.

If you really wrote what you think and it's not some forum trolling: Most of the people on this forum are more Ukrainian than the "real" Ukrainians are (including myself).  Most (if not all) of the people in this topic know a lot about this country (more than most of the Ukrainians, myself including).  And most of them are actually trying to change the place they live in to make it better.  As a saying goes: it's not a crime to live in poop, it's a crime to try to make yourself comfortable living in it.