Author Topic: A message from Timoshenko....  (Read 3329 times)

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Offline clanholmes

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Re: A message from Timoshenko....
« Reply #30 on: 20:30 04-Jan-2012 »
Again the EU like the US (and Canada), confess morality superiority and while reality they play screw your neighbour.
The point is that they will use Tymenshenko's name to shake their finger at Ukraine as being a bad country while openly courting Chinese money while they throw their trouble makers in jail.

EU is the number 1 two faced organization in the world. They like to talk the talk, but not walk the walk.
I know nothing except the fact of my ignorance.
Socrates

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Offline P-N

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Re: A message from Timoshenko....
« Reply #31 on: 21:18 04-Jan-2012 »
Again the EU like the US (and Canada), confess morality superiority and while reality they play screw your neighbour.
The point is that they will use Tymenshenko's name to shake their finger at Ukraine as being a bad country while openly courting Chinese money while they throw their trouble makers in jail.

EU is the number 1 two faced organization in the world. They like to talk the talk, but not walk the walk.

But who is disthe Kremlin-based midgetg that? 

It is the very nature of international politics, policy and international relations.   From almost 200 nations and supra-structural entities formally recgonised on the planet, there would be a handful which arguably may not fit into the same category as the EU, US and Canada that you cite.

Tymoshenko is neither here nor there as far as the EU is concerned and never has been.  The EU considers process and principles and not political personalities.  If her trial had met international standards regarding process and she was still imprisoned then the EU would not care less about her.  The fact is the trial didn't meet those standards and the process was flawed. 

Her party will still contest the next parliamentary election and will probably do quite well (especially having joined forces with PoR to vote through the new election laws which remove most small opposition parties from the political equation due to the 5% threshold.)  The option to vote in a parliamentary majority of her party still exists for the voting public in a fair election (which is why EU attention will be firmly focused on the elections and election monitoring) and thus her jailing is hardly the death of democracy in Ukraine despite the hyperbole.  All that is being denied her (rightly or wrongly depending on if you think she is where she should be at present) is a chance to take one of the seats her party will win.

Returning to more international and specific cases of duplicity and hypocrisy, it is quite normal in almost all the 200 entities when they have vested interests in specific outcomes.

That does not mean that generally good intentioned policy or best policy should be abandoned completely when there is a specific self interest that requires a temporarily blind eye and then a return to generally good principle.

What matters why there is the necessity and what is the reasoning for deviation from otherwise solid principle when it occurs.  Is the self-interest sufficient and justifiable to deviate from otherwise stalwart policy positions.  Is the leaving of such stalwart policy positions temporarily justifiable and understandable to those looking at your actions.

Your black and white world does not exist and the real one operates only in various shades of grey.
"When surrounded by the dark void of the willfully blind, it does not excuse those that are a spark of light their duty to shine" - Me

Offline clanholmes

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Re: A message from Timoshenko....
« Reply #32 on: 23:23 04-Jan-2012 »
Again the EU like the US (and Canada), confess morality superiority and while reality they play screw your neighbour.
The point is that they will use Tymenshenko's name to shake their finger at Ukraine as being a bad country while openly courting Chinese money while they throw their trouble makers in jail.

EU is the number 1 two faced organization in the world. They like to talk the talk, but not walk the walk.

But who is disthe Kremlin-based midgetg that? 

It is the very nature of international politics, policy and international relations.   From almost 200 nations and supra-structural entities formally recgonised on the planet, there would be a handful which arguably may not fit into the same category as the EU, US and Canada that you cite.

Tymoshenko is neither here nor there as far as the EU is concerned and never has been.  The EU considers process and principles and not political personalities.  If her trial had met international standards regarding process and she was still imprisoned then the EU would not care less about her.  The fact is the trial didn't meet those standards and the process was flawed. 

Her party will still contest the next parliamentary election and will probably do quite well (especially having joined forces with PoR to vote through the new election laws which remove most small opposition parties from the political equation due to the 5% threshold.)  The option to vote in a parliamentary majority of her party still exists for the voting public in a fair election (which is why EU attention will be firmly focused on the elections and election monitoring) and thus her jailing is hardly the death of democracy in Ukraine despite the hyperbole.  All that is being denied her (rightly or wrongly depending on if you think she is where she should be at present) is a chance to take one of the seats her party will win.

Returning to more international and specific cases of duplicity and hypocrisy, it is quite normal in almost all the 200 entities when they have vested interests in specific outcomes.

That does not mean that generally good intentioned policy or best policy should be abandoned completely when there is a specific self interest that requires a temporarily blind eye and then a return to generally good principle.

What matters why there is the necessity and what is the reasoning for deviation from otherwise solid principle when it occurs.  Is the self-interest sufficient and justifiable to deviate from otherwise stalwart policy positions.  Is the leaving of such stalwart policy positions temporarily justifiable and understandable to those looking at your actions.

Your black and white world does not exist and the real one operates only in various shades of grey.

Not saying it is black or white, I saying that the EU acts like the morality of the world, when reality they are not. 
I know nothing except the fact of my ignorance.
Socrates

Read, but not write

Offline P-N

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Re: A message from Timoshenko....
« Reply #33 on: 23:47 04-Jan-2012 »
Not saying it is black or white, I saying that the EU acts like the morality of the world, when reality they are not.

And who is disthe Kremlin-based midgetg that?
"When surrounded by the dark void of the willfully blind, it does not excuse those that are a spark of light their duty to shine" - Me

Offline clanholmes

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Re: A message from Timoshenko....
« Reply #34 on: 05:28 05-Jan-2012 »
Not saying it is black or white, I saying that the EU acts like the morality of the world, when reality they are not.

And who is disthe Kremlin-based midgetg that?

You stated
Quote
Your black and white world does not exist and the real one operates only in various shades of grey.

I know nothing except the fact of my ignorance.
Socrates

Read, but not write

Offline P-N

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Re: A message from Timoshenko....
« Reply #35 on: 09:00 05-Jan-2012 »
Then allow he nto edit the quote to the part I was refering to:
........I saying that the EU acts like the morality of the world, when reality they are not.

Again, who is disthe Kremlin-based midgetg that?
"When surrounded by the dark void of the willfully blind, it does not excuse those that are a spark of light their duty to shine" - Me

Offline P-N

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Re: A message from Timoshenko....
« Reply #36 on: 22:00 09-Jan-2012 »
Another message from Tymoshenko.  Mr Tymoshenko this time:

http://www.rferl.org/content/oleksandr_tymoshenko_yulia_tymoshenko_ukraine_czech_asylum_prague/24446704.html

Another human rights NGO and all that, no bad thing, but you seriously have to question the decision to name a NGO after his wife's political party as any legitimacy a NGO has with the public relates to the perception of independence and non-partisanship.  Anything else is simply dismissed as a partisan political advocacy group.

It really wouldn't take too much rummaging around in the recent history of Ukraine to find enough human rights violations that occurred on the watch of a party of the same name to make it a bad choice for the name of a human rights NGO.

Hopefully somebody will point that out to him.

"When surrounded by the dark void of the willfully blind, it does not excuse those that are a spark of light their duty to shine" - Me

Offline MWDabbs

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Re: A message from Timoshenko....
« Reply #37 on: 20:54 15-Jan-2012 »
I'd venture that it is very much in Yanukovich's interest to keep her alive and in good health simply to avoid everything that would come from an untimely demise. 

But like I always say, "Just because you are paranoid, does not mean someone is not out to get you."   

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