Author Topic: A Russian election thread  (Read 3703 times)

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Offline kyivkpic

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Re: A Russian election thread
« Reply #15 on: 20:41 27-Feb-2012 »
 :D
Твоя голова всегда в ответе за то, куда сядет твой зад.

Offline P-N

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Re: A Russian election thread
« Reply #16 on: 23:07 04-Mar-2012 »
Well now the inevitable is over and Mr the Kremlin-based midget is returned to the Kremlin I will predict the following:

Disregarding any immediate protests, his first real problems will come in 2 years, in around 4 years he will be sidelined by those behind him and become an irrelevance, and in 6 years when his term ends he won't stand for another term.
"When surrounded by the dark void of the willfully blind, it does not excuse those that are a spark of light their duty to shine" - Me

Offline clanholmes

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Re: A Russian election thread
« Reply #17 on: 02:40 05-Mar-2012 »
Well now the inevitable is over and Mr the Kremlin-based midget is returned to the Kremlin I will predict the following:

Disregarding any immediate protests, his first real problems will come in 2 years, in around 4 years he will be sidelined by those behind him and become an irrelevance, and in 6 years when his term ends he won't stand for another term.

To keep his promises, he needs 150$ a barrel and that is enough to maintain the status quo.  Again, Ukraine is going to be in trouble with the Kremlin-based midget and co focusing more internal repairs than its sphere.
Ukraine better hope that the  EU gets its act together.Otherwise
As for Ukraine, you ain't seen nothing yet.

http://www.kyivpost.com/news/opinion/editorial/detail/123505/

Bachman Turner Overdrive - You Aint Seen Nothing Yet
« Last Edit: 03:02 05-Mar-2012 by clanholmes »
I know nothing except the fact of my ignorance.
Socrates

Read, but not write

Offline P-N

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Re: A Russian election thread
« Reply #18 on: 12:56 05-Mar-2012 »
Actually I think Russia and the EU having major difficulties in the immediate years ahead will be good for Ukraine and for it to go its own way at last.

Will it be economically painful?  Yes

Will it put enormous stress on society?  Yes

Will it mean that Ukraine comes out the other side far more independent?  Let's hope so.

Growing pains are not likely to be a bed of roses but the end result could be well worth it.

"When surrounded by the dark void of the willfully blind, it does not excuse those that are a spark of light their duty to shine" - Me

Offline clanholmes

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Re: A Russian election thread
« Reply #19 on: 14:21 05-Mar-2012 »
Actually I think Russia and the EU having major difficulties in the immediate years ahead will be good for Ukraine and for it to go its own way at last.

Will it be economically painful?  Yes

Will it put enormous stress on society?  Yes

Will it mean that Ukraine comes out the other side far more independent?  Let's hope so.

Growing pains are not likely to be a bed of roses but the end result could be well worth it.

Tell me what Ukraine has the others want? I can only think Agriculture.
Its steel & chemical industry desperately needs capital to upgrade. They had money coming in until the leadership short term thinking chased it away. Unlike Russia, Ukraine does not have the natural resources to attract investors to come here one way or another.  Fundamentally, Ukraine needs a change in thinking and cultural for doing business.
It had advantage by being the girl everyone wanted to dance with, but the partners are now poor.

Question is Ukraine ready to another Poland or they are going to be another Moldova or worse?
I know nothing except the fact of my ignorance.
Socrates

Read, but not write

Offline AlexMc

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Re: A Russian election thread
« Reply #20 on: 14:24 05-Mar-2012 »
Thought it interesting, although no express references to russia

How to rig an election
Weighing the votes

http://www.economist.com/node/21548946

A brief guide to electoral fraud for the busy despot

THE only poll that counts, supposedly, is election day. But for the sophisticated vote-rigger that is terrible advice. Election day is too late. If you go around beating up your opponents? voters, stuffing ballot boxes and making up results, someone somewhere is bound to complain. All those foreign busybodies will take you to task. It enrages the crowd and it dents your reputation.

It is also unnecessary. If you set about rigging the vote well in advance (see article), you can have an election that looks all right on the outside but guarantees the result you want. And nobody will be able to object. The secret is to obey the rules?having first written them yourself.
It all starts with television, where most voters (especially the poorer and less-educated) get most of their news. Don?t clamp down completely?it makes you look weak. Tolerate small, ill-funded opposition outlets (not least so that you have an idea yourself of what is going on). But make sure that you or your allies control all the main television channels. Television news should trumpet your successes, portraying you as statesmanlike, and perhaps also enjoying manly sports and cuddly charity work.

This makes you the dominant brand in voters? minds. Your propaganda machine should also highlight the opposition?s foreign links, making them look disloyal and alien. It should play up splits and divisions and any personal foibles (your own vices, meanwhile, must remain state secrets).

This makes the next stages easier. Gerrymandering is an excellent tactic. In a parliamentary election, corral your opponents? votes into places where they pile up uselessly, while making sure that yours are spread across plenty of marginal constituencies. If in doubt, look at how it is done in America. Then sort out the electoral registers: you need tough registration requirements for the voters who dislike you. You can count on votes from prisoners, army conscripts and others, so make sure they are registered en masse.

The laws governing political parties are in your hands too: make them burdensome. That will sap the opposition?s energies?and if they make a single slip-up, you can always have their candidates struck from the ballot. Your own party will control a mighty bureaucratic machine and will meet the requirements easily. A sophisticated twist on this is to create your own tame opposition parties, in several flavours. They will distract attention from your real rivals.

You will have to allow some foreigners into your country on polling day. So make it easy for the right ones (your ideological soul mates and those from other autocratic countries). Nosy nit-pickers from the West can come too, but only at the last moment, so they have little time to get organised. Discredit local election-monitoring outfits as foreign-funded and partisan. Trumpet your fans? verdict at home: it will offset the complaints from those foreigners who, your television channel can argue, are secretly bent on doing your country down.

Stuff and nonsense
Do not waste much time campaigning. Anything beyond the odd triumphant rally makes you seem like a mere politician. Instead say you are too busy minding the affairs of state?and make sure you are shown on television doing so.

On polling day hand out free food and booze in poor areas. In places that will not vote for you, have the polling stations open late and close early. If necessary, they can run out of ballot papers. Long queues are a deterrent to busy people.

As insurance, you need to be able to fiddle the results. A computerised system which is apparently secure but actually accessible is ideal. If ballot-boxes are used, make sure they can be stored overnight in a discreet location where, if all else fails, you can add and subtract votes as necessary. If you get caught, say provocateurs are trying to discredit you.

None of this helps you run the country when you win. But who said politics was easy?

Offline clanholmes

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Re: A Russian election thread
« Reply #21 on: 14:37 05-Mar-2012 »
Alex, here we are shaking our finger at Russia, just look at what Mitt Romney is doing in the USA. Canada, we had the main party harass voters to go to the wrong voting station.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/if-robo-calls-were-meant-to-keep-voters-away-they-failed-miserably/article2358726/
But no one internationally is condemning these tactics.
I know nothing except the fact of my ignorance.
Socrates

Read, but not write

Online Fraucha

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Re: A Russian election thread
« Reply #22 on: 15:15 05-Mar-2012 »
Well you could just do it the 3-Step American Way:

1) Promise them a "Chicken in every pot" just don't tell them when they will get the chicken.

2) Tell them "Prosperity is just around the corner" but don't tell them which corner.

3) Make sure you are on the Democratic Ticket, because the registered Democratic voters are stupid and will believe ANYTHING you tell them.

1+2+3 =   E-Z WIN
Peace is the failure of the military to convince the government that it can and should kick its enemies ass.

Offline clanholmes

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Re: A Russian election thread
« Reply #23 on: 15:19 05-Mar-2012 »
Well you could just do it the 3-Step American Way:

1) Promise them a "Chicken in every pot" just don't tell them when they will get the chicken.

2) Tell them "Prosperity is just around the corner" but don't tell them which corner.

3) Make sure you are on the Democratic Ticket, because the registered Democratic voters are stupid and will believe ANYTHING you tell them.

1+2+3 =   E-Z WIN

Sarah Palin's followers are smart like bang to the funny bone.
SARAH PALIN BOOK SIGNING - Interviews with Supporters
I know nothing except the fact of my ignorance.
Socrates

Read, but not write

Offline P-N

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Re: A Russian election thread
« Reply #24 on: 15:21 05-Mar-2012 »
Actually I think Russia and the EU having major difficulties in the immediate years ahead will be good for Ukraine and for it to go its own way at last.

Will it be economically painful?  Yes

Will it put enormous stress on society?  Yes

Will it mean that Ukraine comes out the other side far more independent?  Let's hope so.

Growing pains are not likely to be a bed of roses but the end result could be well worth it.

Tell me what Ukraine has the others want? I can only think Agriculture.
Its steel & chemical industry desperately needs capital to upgrade. They had money coming in until the leadership short term thinking chased it away. Unlike Russia, Ukraine does not have the natural resources to attract investors to come here one way or another.  Fundamentally, Ukraine needs a change in thinking and cultural for doing business.
It had advantage by being the girl everyone wanted to dance with, but the partners are now poor.

Question is Ukraine ready to another Poland or they are going to be another Moldova or worse?

The whole point to my post is that Ukraine will have to find out for itself and develop itself to discover what others want both internally and externally.  It is called innovation and imagination.

If it has no choice but to pursue that line instead of taking easy options of being over friendly with the EU and Russia then just maybe it will be forced to do what it has to do to independently survive.

That is why despite the pain ahead for a few years or more, I actually hope the internal problems of the EU and Russia combine to force Ukraine down this route.

Lots of pain along the way, but the outcome could be wonderful.  Whilst the easy route remains either with Russia or the EU, you can guarantee whoever is in power will take it.

If Ukraine has to hit the bottom to reinvent itself, well others have been there and come out of it very well so there is no reason to believe Ukraine cannot.
"When surrounded by the dark void of the willfully blind, it does not excuse those that are a spark of light their duty to shine" - Me

Offline clanholmes

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Re: A Russian election thread
« Reply #25 on: 15:26 05-Mar-2012 »
Actually I think Russia and the EU having major difficulties in the immediate years ahead will be good for Ukraine and for it to go its own way at last.

Will it be economically painful?  Yes

Will it put enormous stress on society?  Yes

Will it mean that Ukraine comes out the other side far more independent?  Let's hope so.

Growing pains are not likely to be a bed of roses but the end result could be well worth it.

Tell me what Ukraine has the others want? I can only think Agriculture.
Its steel & chemical industry desperately needs capital to upgrade. They had money coming in until the leadership short term thinking chased it away. Unlike Russia, Ukraine does not have the natural resources to attract investors to come here one way or another.  Fundamentally, Ukraine needs a change in thinking and cultural for doing business.
It had advantage by being the girl everyone wanted to dance with, but the partners are now poor.

Question is Ukraine ready to another Poland or they are going to be another Moldova or worse?

The whole point to my post is that Ukraine will have to find out for itself and develop itself to discover what others want both internally and externally.  It is called innovation and imagination.

If it has no choice but to pursue that line instead of taking easy options of being over friendly with the EU and Russia then just maybe it will be forced to do what it has to do to independently survive.

That is why despite the pain ahead for a few years or more, I actually hope the internal problems of the EU and Russia combine to force Ukraine down this route.

Lots of pain along the way, but the outcome could be wonderful.  Whilst the easy route remains either with Russia or the EU, you can guarantee whoever is in power will take it.

If Ukraine has to hit the bottom to reinvent itself, well others have been there and come out of it very well so there is no reason to believe Ukraine cannot.

I agree, but how far does it have to go before it makes the turn?
I know nothing except the fact of my ignorance.
Socrates

Read, but not write

Online Fraucha

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Re: A Russian election thread
« Reply #26 on: 15:34 05-Mar-2012 »
Well you could just do it the 3-Step American Way:

1) Promise them a "Chicken in every pot" just don't tell them when they will get the chicken.

2) Tell them "Prosperity is just around the corner" but don't tell them which corner.

3) Make sure you are on the Democratic Ticket, because the registered Democratic voters are stupid and will believe ANYTHING you tell them.

1+2+3 =   E-Z WIN

Sarah Palin's followers are smart like bang to the funny bone.


Notice Palin is not on the Radar Screen ... anywhere, thank God.
We could have shipped her to the Kremlin-based midget to be his P.M., but even the Kremlin-based midget doesn't deserve that.
Peace is the failure of the military to convince the government that it can and should kick its enemies ass.

Offline P-N

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Re: A Russian election thread
« Reply #27 on: 15:45 05-Mar-2012 »
I agree, but how far does it have to go before it makes the turn?

As far as it takes.  Until that time Ukraine will take the easy option every time (just like most).





"When surrounded by the dark void of the willfully blind, it does not excuse those that are a spark of light their duty to shine" - Me

Offline JTF

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Що Що!!?

Online Fraucha

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Re: A Russian election thread
« Reply #29 on: 15:51 05-Mar-2012 »
"Tell me what Ukraine has the others want? I can only think Agriculture."

True.
Never underestimate the power of Agriculture. Remember when California was the #7 economy in the world? Food: not Hollywood, not steel, not Silicon Valley. Remember when Ukraine was the Bread Basket of The Soviet Union? Remember when the Nazis and the Russians both stripped Ukrainian super soil off the land and shipped it back to their countries?

What does Ukraine have? Agriculture. What does Ukraine NEED? Fuel and Farmers.
Gas to power tractors and trucks to ship to market, but we NEED to work the fields.

Of course this is very simplistic thinking, but ... I am not very intelligent or even very smart, so simple things come to my mind, you know, like food.

How far does it have to go to make that turn? Prosperity is just around the corner, only Ukrainians can find that corner and make that turn, they need to get behind the wheel and stay on the road. It is a long one...
Peace is the failure of the military to convince the government that it can and should kick its enemies ass.