Expat Ukraine Forum

Expatriate Life => Q&A => Topic started by: P-N on 13:34 24-Apr-2008

Title: Visa & Registration Questions - Ask Now or Forever Hold Your Peace
Post by: P-N on 13:34 24-Apr-2008
As I am recieving about 5 PM's per day relating to Visa and Registration questions, and so as not to wear a friendship thin with the boss of the OVIR in Odessa, tomorrow I have arranged a meeting with him and the Customs & Immigration Chief and a high ranking lady within the central Zag here. 

Instead of the current "drip, drip questions and answers" to my friend, I will take a list of questions you now post and will give written answers to them all in this thread tomorrow evening/the day after tomorrow (depending on the length of the meeting and Vodka consumed  ::)).  No matter how stupid you think your question maybe, you will probably not be the only one with that question.

Yes, this is Ukraine and the answers to your questions when given, maybe effectively be nul and void within 3 months ( ::)) but they will be 100% correct as at the time of posting.

I will again, confirm the changes to the Permanent Residency registration, although for a few days now (and on the evidence of the wedding I attended today and having seen the new "Blue Card") it appears the changes I reported are indeed correct. 

I will also get some contacts in the Kyiv OVIR tomorrow (details of which I will not post for general consuption) for those that continually get the unhelpfull pencil pusher that shines their "backside" and will take completed forms but not answer questions or give advice in Kyiv.

This is you opportunity, so I would ask that you take it  :)



Title: Re: Visa & Registration Questions - Ask Now or Forever Hold Your Peace
Post by: andbod on 15:50 24-Apr-2008
Hi Nik,
thank you very much for this opportunity. I have concentrated a lot of common questions in this email. If they are too much feel free to ask only the ones that you believe needs an answer. I think that these are common questions among expat wishing to get employed in Ukraine (and would help me very much) :
1) After being granted a work permit in Ukraine I have to make a IM-1 visa application. After being granted visa I have to register at local OVIR. Is that the correct procedure? Do I need to register at ZHEK as well (form n.15)?
2) One of the OVIR requirements (should be 17 documents if someone is interested I can post them) is to provide evidence of address in Ukraine.
This should be achieved with Zhek form n. 3 and a rental contract registered in Zhek. Is this information correct ? If an Ukrainian citizen (my girlfriend) wish that I stay in her apartment at no cost do I still need to provide a rental contract with 0 cost or is there another Zhek form ?
3) Is that true that once I get my IM-1 Visa I need 2 different stamp from OVIR ? One stamp indicating the permission to live in Ukraine and another letting me go in and out from Ukraine during the validity of my IM-1 Visa ?
4) At the time my IM-1 Visa/Work permit expires do I need do make the registration in OVIR again or do I just need to renew my work permit and visa ?
5) A foreigner working in Ukraine is living in Ukraine under a temporary resident status ?
6) Can a foreigner have more than one work permit (to work in different companies at the same time) or register as a private entrepreneur while working as employee in another company ?
7) Based on Cabinet of Ministers Resolution #917 from July 11, 2007 an EU,US,Japan citizen wishing to work in Ukraine and stay in the country more than 180 days in a 1yr period has to apply for a IM-1 Visa or can simply register with OVIR ?
8) The Cabinet of Ministers Instruction No. 892, dated September 12, 2005, extended work permits from one year to the tenure of employment for foreign citizens working in managerial or specialized positions in Ukraine and individuals providing services without their commercial presence in Ukraine. What is intended for specialized position ? CEO, CTO, CFO, Production control, Quality control, Technical supervision ? How an existing work permit can extended ?
Title: Re: Visa & Registration Questions - Ask Now or Forever Hold Your Peace
Post by: P-N on 16:10 24-Apr-2008
I will ask anything anyone wants me to ask as not everyone has the same connections I have, or have access to the top people in their Oblast as I have.  I will therefore ask all of your questions and give you the definative answers as given to me "verbatum".

It maybe that I will do this quarterly with these people (unless there is an Expat in urgent need of answers to questions we cannot answer).  My friends have already agreed to contact me with any changes in the rules so I can post to all the changes they inform me of as they happen.  :)
Title: Re: Visa & Registration Questions - Ask Now or Forever Hold Your Peace
Post by: ecocks on 16:21 24-Apr-2008
Andbod -

I was curious about two of your questions.

I am almost certain that your #1 is not right.  I know of no way to get a work permit without showing proof of your existing visa.  The university which I work at required me to submit a photocopy of mine before they could submit my work permit request. Also, the firm where I do teacher recruiting has never suggested that getting a work permit was possible without sending the employee out of the country to get the long-term visa, THEN  submitting the permit request.  Whenever possible, we try to get the people to do the visa before coming into the country so they are not on the 90 day restriction.   It is always possible this is not right I guess and maybe Nik's source can indeed verify or refute it but I don't see how they would give you a work permit unless you demonstrated that you were legally in the country for the duration of the permit.

17 documents for OVIR registration?  When I did mine it was less than half that even counting my wife's associated paperwork being added to the invitation letter, insurance payment receipt, ZHEK form and my passport.  Maybe you can post that list and my wife could look at it and see what she remembers from back when we first did that?
Title: Re: Visa & Registration Questions - Ask Now or Forever Hold Your Peace
Post by: P-N on 16:41 24-Apr-2008
I have also been asked to offer the following questions:

Upon marriage because of the changes in the last 10 days, are you AUTOMATICALLY granted PERMANENT RESIDENCY STATUS or simply indefinite leave to remain in Ukraine?

Has the OVIR designated the power of Foreigner registration via marriage to the Zag.  Is the stamp confirming marriage to a Ukraine national now also the stamp for Permanent Residency Status and recognised as such by OVIR, Immigration, Customs and the Militia?

If a foreign national marries a Ukrainian national must they first have an OVIR registered address and tax ID?

If not and this individual stays via marriage, how does Ukraine ensure they pay tax?

Before marrying a Ukrainian citizen do you have to have a registered address in Ukraine and tax ID number?

If not what stops me getting of a plane, marrying a Ukraine national and disappearing from the OVIR radar when I could be a spy or terrorist?

Do those foreign nationals who have been married before the changes and already have the stamp of Ukrainian marriage automatically now have permanent resident status?

If not what status do they have as they can now stay automatically forever.

Does someone who has a stamp of marriage to a Ukraine citizen still require a work permit, business visa, private entrepreneur visa etc.etc. should they wish to work as they can now remain indefinitely?

With permanent residency they do not need these visa’s or work permits is that correct?

If permanent residency status is now automatically given via marriage, then upon marriage they do not need the visa’s and work permits?

If I am married to a Ukrainian national and we have a child, but married less than 2 years am I automatically entitled to a “Blue Card”?




 
Title: Re: Visa & Registration Questions - Ask Now or Forever Hold Your Peace
Post by: P-N on 16:48 24-Apr-2008
Anymore anyone?  It does not matter to me what the question is, if it is relevant to you then it is therefore relevant, no matter how silly or trivial it may seem.  My meeting is in the late morning so I will have time to collate questions posted when I am off line before I attend.  :)
Title: Re: Visa & Registration Questions - Ask Now or Forever Hold Your Peace
Post by: Carlusha on 17:54 24-Apr-2008
Presumably, a retiree would also require a tax id?

Pension is already taxed in UK in order to finance Parliamentary Pensions and the upcoming London Olympics for which anticipated costs are now 5 times the original estimate!
Title: Re: Visa & Registration Questions - Ask Now or Forever Hold Your Peace
Post by: P-N on 18:05 24-Apr-2008
Will ask for you mate.
Title: Re: Visa & Registration Questions - Ask Now or Forever Hold Your Peace
Post by: andbod on 18:19 24-Apr-2008
Hi Ecoks,
well regarding the work permit I have been granted one without having any Visa in my passport. I applied for work permit during the 90 days period of my visa free travel and OVIR told me that now I have to go to Poland or another country to apply for a IM-1 visa. Later they will register me (after providing the list of documents below). I really don't know if it is the right procedure since my lawyer took care of everything. I called the Polish Consulate and they told me that to be granted the IM-1 visa they first need the Ukrainian work permit in original. Tomorrow we will know a little bit more :)

This is the list of documents required by local OVIR office (sorry it is in Ukrainian language) :
1. Заява-анкета встановленого зразка, підписана іноземним громадянином, а також з печаткою та підписом керівника підприємства, що клопоче про надання посвідки. Якщо іноземний громадянин, що клопоче про надання посвідки і є керівником підприємства, то за нього повинна клопотати інша особа, уповноважена діяти від імені підприємства.
2. Копія першої сторінки паспорта з нотаріально посвідченим перекладом.
3. Копія візи типу ІМ-І, що видається консульською установою України за кордоном на підставі Дозволу на працевлаштування і є одноразовою візою.
4. Нотаріально посвідчена копія дозволу на працевлаштування.
5. Копія особистого ідентифікаційного коду іноземця.
6. Нотаріально засвідчена копія свідоцтва про реєстрацію підприємства.
7. Нотаріально засвідчена копія довідки Управління статистики про реєстрацію підприємства як суб’єкта підприємницької діяльності.
8. Копія довідки банку про наявність рахунку.
9. Копія картки про реєстрацію підприємства в УГІРФО за місцем фактичного знаходження офісу підприємства.
10. Довідка про судимість з Міністерства внутрішніх справ України.
11. Довідки на СНІД та Туберкульоз.
12. Довідка форми №3 завірена в ЖЕК та заяви усіх членів сім’ї, що досягли 18 років про те, що вони не заперечують проти тимчасової реєстрації у їхній квартирі іноземного громадянина.
13. Договір про оренду квартири, зареєстрований у ЖЕК.
14. Копія страхового поліса (сертифікату) про надання екстреної медичної допомоги;
15. 6 чорно-білих фотокарток розміром 3*4 на матовій основі.
16. Квитанція про сплату держмита (6,12 грн.), послуг ВПР та МР(34,00 грн.).
17. Папка швидкозшивач та 4 конверти

Problem is that local Zhek doesn't even know what is it Dovidka form n. 3 and there is no way the get my rental contract registered with Zhek (I was not able to register in my own condo as well).
It is almost 4 months that I fight with the lack of information or misinformation (I'm quite habit to this since it is 3 years that I live and run business in Ukraine).
Title: Re: Visa & Registration Questions - Ask Now or Forever Hold Your Peace
Post by: P-N on 19:00 24-Apr-2008
I will simply print this thread tomorrow and take it with me.  I hope I can shed some light for you Andbod (and maybe even find a copy of the form the Zhak don't know) with a fiar wind.  If I do not answer any questions straight away, it will be because my friend will want to ensure he gives me the correct information and may have to check on some issues we present him.  He like I does not want to provide any information which is not accurate as he is aware that answers he gives me get placed here.  :)
Title: Re: Visa & Registration Questions - Ask Now or Forever Hold Your Peace
Post by: andbod on 00:59 25-Apr-2008
Nik I just would like to thank you again for your help!
Title: Re: Visa & Registration Questions - Ask Now or Forever Hold Your Peace
Post by: P-N on 06:21 25-Apr-2008
A few other questions I have been asked to raise:

As a foreigner, if for example I have a registered address in Odessa with the OVIR and then move with my company to Kyiv do I then have to register with Kyiv OVIR and find another address or will my registration in Odessa still keep me within the law?

I am British and my wife is Russian but we got married in Kyiv and therefore have this stamp in both our national passports.  Neither of us is therefore married to a Ukrainian citizen but have this stamp.  As it will be impossible to tell when going through customs who I am married to by looking at a stamp in my passport we could stay indefinitely without being married to a Ukraine?

Does the marriage stamp simply give you unlimited leave to remain in Ukraine until you have reached qualification for the “Blue Card”  after 2 years of marriage which then gives you Permanent Residency Status?

If this is the case, are work visa and business visa’s etc. still required until receipt of the Blue Card?
Title: Re: Visa & Registration Questions - Ask Now or Forever Hold Your Peace
Post by: ecocks on 07:20 25-Apr-2008
I am thinking a Ukrainian is going to have to be an involved party somewhere in this process.
Title: Re: Visa & Registration Questions - Ask Now or Forever Hold Your Peace
Post by: P-N on 07:41 25-Apr-2008
Just been asked if it is OK for the boss of the Zhek to attend  ::), when I told Anechka the womans name it turns out she knows her anyway........another one for the list of handy people  ;)
Title: Re: Visa & Registration Questions - The Answers
Post by: P-N on 16:16 25-Apr-2008
Here are your answers "verbatum".  There was one question that could not be answered today but I will get back to you when the answer is given.  As there is so much it will be split into several replies, so for the sake of continuety please do not jump in until all have been posted.

The answers are direct quotes and in itallics.

I will post the questions and then answers directly underneath to avoid confusion.

**********************************************************************************
What date did these changes take place which we are about to discuss?

9th April 2008


Can you say on who’s authority they have changed and can you give any detail on the document?

Cabinet Ministry of Ukraine – Decision 909 dated 9th April 2008
Title: Re: Visa & Registration Questions - Ask Now or Forever Hold Your Peace
Post by: P-N on 16:17 25-Apr-2008
After being granted a work permit in Ukraine I have to make a IM-1 visa application. After being granted visa I have to register at local OVIR. Is that the correct procedure? Do I need to register at ZHEK as well (form n.15)?

Yes you must have registration at both


One of the OVIR requirements (should be 17 documents if someone is interested I can post them) is to provide evidence of address in Ukraine.
This should be achieved with Zhek form n. 3 and a rental contract registered in Zhek. Is this information correct ? If an Ukrainian citizen (my girlfriend) wish that I stay in her apartment at no cost do I still need to provide a rental contract with 0 cost or is there another Zhek form ?

Form No 3 is obtained from the OVIR not the Zhek.  3 x passport photos are required.  It is a 2 page form, you need 2 copies, one for your retention and one to be held by the Zhek.  You need a copy of your girlfriends passport, go the Zhek with passports, completed form and photos, pay 20 UAH and the Zhek will put 2 stamps on the forms.  Take the stamped forms from the Zhek to the OVIR and leave your passport with the form with them for 48 hours and pay 200 UAH.  You are then registered with the Zhek and the OVIR at your girlfriend’s house.


Is that true that once I get my IM-1 Visa I need 2 different stamp from OVIR ? One stamp indicating the permission to live in Ukraine and another letting me go in and out from Ukraine during the validity of my IM-1 Visa ?

You do not need any stamps – the IM-1 Visa is sufficient.  When the visa expires and you wish to remain in Ukraine you can register with your OVIR and extend your stay by 3 months whilst you sort out your new visa.


At the time my IM-1 Visa/Work permit expires do I need do make the registration in OVIR again or do I just need to renew my work permit and visa ?

Yes you must.

A foreigner working in Ukraine is living in Ukraine under a temporary resident status ?

No.
Title: Re: Visa & Registration Questions - Ask Now or Forever Hold Your Peace
Post by: P-N on 16:19 25-Apr-2008
Can a foreigner have more than one work permit (to work in different companies at the same time) or register as a private entrepreneur while working as employee in another company

You need only one work visa regardless of how many jobs you hold or how many companies you work for.


Based on Cabinet of Ministers Resolution #917 from July 11, 2007 an EU,US,Japan citizen wishing to work in Ukraine and stay in the country more than 180 days in a 1yr period has to apply for a IM-1 Visa or can simply register with OVIR ?

You must make registration with the OVIR.


The Cabinet of Ministers Instruction No. 892, dated September 12, 2005, extended work permits from one year to the tenure of employment for foreign citizens working in managerial or specialized positions in Ukraine and individuals providing services without their commercial presence in Ukraine. What is intended for specialized position ? CEO, CTO, CFO, Production control, Quality control, Technical supervision ? How an existing work permit can extended ?

I cannot answer that for you now – will have it in a few days as I do not want to provide inaccurate information.


Upon marriage because of the changes in the last 10 days, are you AUTOMATICALLY granted PERMANENT RESIDENCY STATUS or simply indefinite leave to remain in Ukraine?

You can come and go without visa restrictions and remain in Ukraine for as long as you wish without time limit.  It is not Permanent Resident Status until you have been married for 2 years and receive your Blue Card.  You then are officially a Permanent Resident when hold the Blue Card.



Has the OVIR designated the power of Foreigner registration via marriage to the Zag.  Is the stamp confirming marriage to a Ukraine national now also the stamp for Permanent Residency Status and recognised as such by OVIR, Immigration, Customs and the Militia?

No – The OVIR, Customs and Immigration will now recognise it as your right for visaless free travel and right to remain in Ukraine for as long as you wish.  There is no requirement for you to leave Ukraine at all should you want to remain here for 2 years and wait your Permanent Residency via the Blue Card.



If a foreign national marries a Ukrainian national must they first have an OVIR registered address and tax ID?

Registration is only required after marriage should you wish to remain more than 90 days in Ukraine.  You do not need a Tax ID number.
Title: Re: Visa & Registration Questions - Ask Now or Forever Hold Your Peace
Post by: P-N on 16:20 25-Apr-2008
If not and this individual stays via marriage, how does Ukraine ensure they pay tax?

Ukraine cannot ensure anyone pays tax (Laughs)



If not what stops me getting off a plane, marrying a Ukraine national and disappearing from the OVIR radar when I could be a spy or terrorist?

Nothing can stop this it is a loophole and therefore possible at the moment.



Do those foreign nationals who have been married before the changes and already have the stamp of Ukrainian marriage automatically now have permanent resident status?

If married for more than 2 years yes, but they must go to their local OVIR and obtain their Blue Card.  If not married for 2 years they will obtain this status on reaching 2 years of marriage.


If not what status do they have as they can now stay automatically forever.

You have “Family Code Ukraine Status” from the date of your marriage until you get to 2 years when you automatically obtain Permanent Residency Status.


Does someone who has a stamp of marriage to a Ukraine citizen still require a work permit, business visa, private entrepreneur visa etc.etc. should they wish to work as they can now remain indefinitely?

Upon marriage to a Ukraine national, you no longer need a business visa or PE visa, or work permit if you are working for a registered Ukrainian company.  You must have a Tax ID and obtain a payment card to pay 250 UAH per month as a normal Ukraine would.  What you have left after this is your own money.  The tax code you need to register under to achieve this is private entrepreneur tax code with the Tax Police.  You as a foreigner are stupid to do it any other way.  If working for a foreign company you will require a Work Visa and Tax ID only.


With permanent residency they do not need these visa’s or work permits is that correct?

That is correct, you do not need them.



If I am married to a Ukrainian national and we have a child, but married less than 2 years am I automatically entitled to a “Blue Card”?

Yes you are automatically entitled to the Blue Card in this circumstance.  You must produce marriage certificate, birth certificate, passports of both parents and copies of the passports also, 4 x passport photos of the foreign national, complete the application for the Blue Card at the OVIR and pay 350 UAH.


well regarding the work permit I have been granted one without having any Visa in my passport. I applied for work permit during the 90 days period of my visa free travel and OVIR told me that now I have to go to Poland or another country to apply for a IM-1 visa. Later they will register me (after providing the list of documents below). I really don't know if it is the right procedure since my lawyer took care of everything. I called the Polish Consulate and they told me that to be granted the IM-1 visa they first need the Ukrainian work permit in original. Tomorrow we will know a little bit more

This is the list of documents required by local OVIR office (sorry it is in Ukrainian language) :
1. Заява-анкета встановленого зразка, підписана іноземним громадянином, а також з печаткою та підписом керівника підприємства, що клопоче про надання посвідки. Якщо іноземний громадянин, що клопоче про надання посвідки і є керівником підприємства, то за нього повинна клопотати інша особа, уповноважена діяти від імені підприємства.
2. Копія першої сторінки паспорта з нотаріально посвідченим перекладом.
3. Копія візи типу ІМ-І, що видається консульською установою України за кордоном на підставі Дозволу на працевлаштування і є одноразовою візою.
4. Нотаріально посвідчена копія дозволу на працевлаштування.
5. Копія особистого ідентифікаційного коду іноземця.
6. Нотаріально засвідчена копія свідоцтва про реєстрацію підприємства.
7. Нотаріально засвідчена копія довідки Управління статистики про реєстрацію підприємства як суб’єкта підприємницької діяльності.
8. Копія довідки банку про наявність рахунку.
9. Копія картки про реєстрацію підприємства в УГІРФО за місцем фактичного знаходження офісу підприємства.
10. Довідка про судимість з Міністерства внутрішніх справ України.
11. Довідки на СНІД та Туберкульоз.
12. Довідка форми №3 завірена в ЖЕК та заяви усіх членів сім’ї, що досягли 18 років про те, що вони не заперечують проти тимчасової реєстрації у їхній квартирі іноземного громадянина.
13. Договір про оренду квартири, зареєстрований у ЖЕК.
14. Копія страхового поліса (сертифікату) про надання екстреної медичної допомоги;
15. 6 чорно-білих фотокарток розміром 3*4 на матовій основі.
16. Квитанція про сплату держмита (6,12 грн.), послуг ВПР та МР(34,00 грн.).
17. Папка швидкозшивач та 4 конверти

Problem is that local Zhek doesn't even know what is it Dovidka form n. 3 and there is no way the get my rental contract registered with Zhek (I was not able to register in my own condo as well).
It is almost 4 months that I fight with the lack of information or misinformation (I'm quite habit to this since it is 3 years that I live and run business in Ukraine).

Form No 3 is obtained from the OVIR not the Zhek.  3 x passport photos are required.  It is a 2 page form, you need 2 copies, one for your retention and one to be held by the Zhek.  You need a copy of your girlfriends passport, go the Zhek with passports, completed form and photos, pay 20 UAH and the Zhek will put 2 stamps on the forms.  Take the stamped forms from the Zhek to the OVIR and leave your passport with the form with them for 48 hours and pay 200 UAH.  You are then registered with the Zhek and the OVIR at your girlfriend’s house.


As a foreigner, if for example I have a registered address in Odessa with the OVIR and then move with my company to Kyiv do I then have to register with Kyiv OVIR and find another address or will my registration in Odessa still keep me within the law?

Within the current system, your registration is required in Ukraine at an address should you wish to remain over 90 days.  There is no requirement which states you must re-register should you relocate to another Oblast.



I am British and my wife is Russian but we got married in Kyiv and therefore have this stamp in both our national passports.  Neither of us is therefore married to a Ukrainian citizen but have this stamp.  As it will be impossible to tell when going through customs who I am married to by looking at a stamp in my passport we could stay indefinitely without being married to a Ukraine?

This is Ukraine and we are in a learning curve with many changes.  The fact you have the stamp would entitle you to “Family Code Ukraine Status” for anybody looking at your passport, the same as someone married to a Ukrainian national.  It is a loophole.  I am not aware of 2 foreign nationals marrying in my Oblast.  (Took note to report this loophole internally)


Does the marriage stamp simply give you unlimited leave to remain in Ukraine until you have reached qualification for the “Blue Card” which then gives you Permanent Residency Status?

Yes


If this is the case, are work visa and business visa’s etc. still required until receipt of the Blue Card?

No, unless you are employed by a foreign firm when you will require a work visa only.


As a retired foreigner with Permanent Residency Status do I need a Tax ID number?


No

********************************************************************************************

That answers all that I was required to ask by people.  Hope it is now clear  :)






 
Title: Re: Visa & Registration Questions - Ask Now or Forever Hold Your Peace
Post by: ecocks on 21:15 25-Apr-2008
You Da' Man!
Title: Re: Visa & Registration Questions - Ask Now or Forever Hold Your Peace
Post by: Carlusha on 22:37 25-Apr-2008
We have already invited him to our next 35 parties!
Title: Re: Visa & Registration Questions - Ask Now or Forever Hold Your Peace
Post by: P-N on 06:17 26-Apr-2008
Well, as much as the answers help individuals immediately, the most important part of the post is the origin of the changes and document reference.  Even a Ukrainian lawyer should be able to track it down now.  ::)
Title: Re: Visa & Registration Questions - Ask Now or Forever Hold Your Peace
Post by: BritKyiv on 13:50 26-Apr-2008
This is great work by one smart expat living in Ukraine

The whole of the expat community in Ukraine owe Nik BIG TIME.
Makes me wonder how lawyers will interprete all this. We will see.

Moreover, I think this web site and the value of the contributions from people like Nik are among the best in Ukraine. For once we have a source of information that is better than all the foreign consular offices put together and all lawyers in Ukraine.

Well done Pompey Nik. You're the best.
Title: Re: Visa & Registration Questions - Ask Now or Forever Hold Your Peace
Post by: P-N on 14:18 26-Apr-2008
It will be an on-going process, bi-monthly meetings probably, as I now have contacts at the top of the OVIR, Zag, Zhet and Work Visa Ministries here in Odessa. As Odessa does not set the rules or dictats whatever happens here "should" represent the whole of Ukraine.  As always, communication of anything new in Ukraine is poor but these people will try and keep us all up to speed as the changes happen.  :)  How hard it will be to convince the pencil pushing foot soldiers in your respective Oblasts that you know more than them is a different matter  ::).  For the Odessa Expat, as long as what you require is within the law then keeping you within the rules of our host nation will not be difficult.  :)

Title: Re: Visa & Registration Questions - Ask Now or Forever Hold Your Peace
Post by: Only Me on 10:19 02-May-2008
I have been married to a Ukrainian Lady now for 6 years, we where married in the UK, I have no marriage stamp in my passport, can I get one and if so where do I get the stamp from, or can I apply directly for my blue card and if so where would I go
 ???
Title: Re: Visa & Registration Questions - Ask Now or Forever Hold Your Peace
Post by: P-N on 16:40 02-May-2008
You would need to bring the original of your marriage certificate, your passport, her passport here and get it translated and "apostiled".  Then go to your local OVIR and sort it out from there.  The fact you have been married to a Ukraine national for this length of time will entitle you to the Blue Card under the current legislation.
Title: Re: Visa & Registration Questions - Ask Now or Forever Hold Your Peace
Post by: SilverBullet on 16:01 05-May-2008
Nik, this is one of the best postings on this board! You are saving many a lot of grief and money by clarifying the rules. We will soon all have our Blue Cards  ;D THANKS! I guess local lawyers will still be able to make money on expats in real estate transactions unless you simply that process for us too  ;D
Title: Re: Visa & Registration Questions - Ask Now or Forever Hold Your Peace
Post by: P-N on 16:52 05-May-2008
Real Estate I can help you with too SB - my "core" business is construction after all and therefore I make sure I am up to speed on land and construction issues within my Oblast.  There will be small sifferences between Oblasts relating to certain "City Ordnance" but again the process is simple (once you cut through the mystique) and to be fair to Ukraine, they are trying to make it more swift at every opportunity.

When I first came, only certain "nominated" notary's could deal with land transaction within Odessa Oblast.  That changed this year and all notary's can now deal with land transactions.......the only people who will tell you it is not true is the old notary's who had the market cornered until you start to quote references to the changes at which point they will admit defeat.  :o ::)

If it would help, I can post a "beginners guide" to property/land aquisition/construction/insurance regulations/technical passports/documentation required to buy, sell, change land boundaries etc. on another thread sometime.

Will even scan the documents if necessary so you know what you should and shouldn't have, what you get from whom and where to get them if you don't have them.  :)
Title: Re: Visa & Registration Questions - Ask Now or Forever Hold Your Peace
Post by: matlockk on 18:43 05-May-2008
Great work Nik. I learned more from this post than talking to my HR people for the last 6 months! Of particular interest to me was the Brit married to Russian as it is I. But, my stamp is slightly different to the one that was scanned and copied into a thread.
Title: Re: Visa & Registration Questions - Ask Now or Forever Hold Your Peace
Post by: matlockk on 18:54 05-May-2008
Another question which I wasn't clear on from the answers. I have a single entry IM-1 visa which expires in November. Soon, I will have done the registration bit. When the IM-1 expires do I have to go through the whole mullarkey again- travel to Uk for visa, fill in the 17 forms etc etc.

I've told the Russki missus I'm chucking her for a Ukrainka! Though she was born in Lugansk!
Title: Re: Visa & Registration Questions - Ask Now or Forever Hold Your Peace
Post by: buba on 02:24 06-May-2008
Real Estate I can help you with too SB - my "core" business is construction after all and therefore I make sure I am up to speed on land and construction issues within my Oblast.  There will be small sifferences between Oblasts relating to certain "City Ordnance" but again the process is simple (once you cut through the mystique) and to be fair to Ukraine, they are trying to make it more swift at every opportunity.

When I first came, only certain "nominated" notary's could deal with land transaction within Odessa Oblast.  That changed this year and all notary's can now deal with land transactions.......the only people who will tell you it is not true is the old notary's who had the market cornered until you start to quote references to the changes at which point they will admit defeat.  :o ::)

If it would help, I can post a "beginners guide" to property/land aquisition/construction/insurance regulations/technical passports/documentation required to buy, sell, change land boundaries etc. on another thread sometime.

Will even scan the documents if necessary so you know what you should and shouldn't have, what you get from whom and where to get them if you don't have them.  :)

Well dear colleague  ;)

I think Real Estate in Ukraine is not a simple process at all, especially for a foreigner. I have seen many many people (foreigners) loosing all their money here. Even big international companies with huge investments cant do a lot in this country. This is a close businness. Of course there are some pretty opportunities but if somebody becomes too big .....

I do appreciate a lot your optimism regarding the authorities and law and.... but sometimes i feel like we live in 2 different countries or world. Maybe is time for me to move to Odessa  :).

Title: Re: Visa & Registration Questions - Ask Now or Forever Hold Your Peace
Post by: P-N on 07:39 06-May-2008
Then different worlds we must be in.  In 2.5 years I have never had a problem, buying or selling or getting permissions.  That said Odessa is Odessa and Kyiv is Kyiv and seemingly never the two shall meet in any form of business or administration  ::).  It took me all of 6 hours when last in Kyiv to deside I wouldn't consider expanding my operation there but most likely westwards towards Lviv or even into Moldova when it is time to do so.

You maybe correct with regards becoming too big an entity and attracting attention to yourself.  My business model does not attract such attention as everything is bespoke and built to order and spec of particular clients and not built with the "hope" of selling the finished article thereafter.  This way I do not run any risk of upsetting the local companies, only pleasing the clients which come to me.

It is for this reason I have turned away the opportunity to construct 2 hotels for different clients in the city, preferring to accommodate the new-rich and their associates in "suburbia".  The construction time is quicker, the buildings unique (so interest in the project is always high from my staff) and the return on capital employed is high.

Sticking with this client base has consistantly gathered a circle of friends which has political and influential momentum should I every require the system to "speed up" when I need it to.

Not everyone is as lucky as I have been in this regard I grant you....but then again is it luck or good business sense to have targetted this market in the first place?  :)

Title: Re: Visa & Registration Questions - Ask Now or Forever Hold Your Peace
Post by: ecocks on 08:54 06-May-2008
I see people losing their money too.

Idiots are idiots regardless of which country you go to.

Buying property has a few nuances like the restrictions on agricultural land, but it is mostly a matter of navigating the bureaucracy and finding the right pieces of paper to get signed. Every country has different rules regarding planning, zoning and such - it is no problem, just different processes. 
Title: Re: Visa & Registration Questions - Ask Now or Forever Hold Your Peace
Post by: buba on 14:37 06-May-2008
I see people losing their money too.

Idiots are idiots regardless of which country you go to.

Buying property has a few nuances like the restrictions on agricultural land, but it is mostly a matter of navigating the bureaucracy and finding the right pieces of paper to get signed. Every country has different rules regarding planning, zoning and such - it is no problem, just different processes. 

I think this is true if you want buy an appartement or a small land plot for yourself. In fact I was speaking about set up a businness in Ukraine.

For the rest I think Nik is right and he has found an intelligent way to do it  ;)
Title: Re: Visa & Registration Questions - Ask Now or Forever Hold Your Peace
Post by: SilverBullet on 16:46 06-May-2008
Real Estate I can help you with too SB - my "core" business is construction after all and therefore I make sure I am up to speed on land and construction issues within my Oblast.  There will be small sifferences between Oblasts relating to certain "City Ordnance" but again the process is simple (once you cut through the mystique) and to be fair to Ukraine, they are trying to make it more swift at every opportunity.

When I first came, only certain "nominated" notary's could deal with land transaction within Odessa Oblast.  That changed this year and all notary's can now deal with land transactions.......the only people who will tell you it is not true is the old notary's who had the market cornered until you start to quote references to the changes at which point they will admit defeat.  :o ::)

If it would help, I can post a "beginners guide" to property/land aquisition/construction/insurance regulations/technical passports/documentation required to buy, sell, change land boundaries etc. on another thread sometime.

Will even scan the documents if necessary so you know what you should and shouldn't have, what you get from whom and where to get them if you don't have them.  :)
Nik, thanks - if you do - it will be another best seller on this board! I am still renting in Kyiv but will look for investment opportunites in a vacation home to use while visiting Ukraine. ;D
Title: Re: Visa & Registration Questions - Ask Now or Forever Hold Your Peace
Post by: P-N on 17:08 06-May-2008
Consider it done SB - will take several posts as it will probably go over the 2000 character per post limit.  I will scan some documents and remove details specific to me ( ::)) if the are required on a PM or email basis rather than put them in the public forum thus depriving others the opportunity to print and attempt to defraud some poor Babooshka somewhere in Ukraine  ::).

Hopefully they won't be needed anyway as my thread should describe the documents in sufficient detail to not require than scanned docs.  :-\
Title: Re: Visa & Registration Questions - The Answers
Post by: matlockk on 07:13 07-May-2008


Cabinet Ministry of Ukraine – Decision 990 dated 9th April 2008


Anyone have a link to this. Would be a useful document to have when crossing the border.
Title: Re: Visa & Registration Questions - Ask Now or Forever Hold Your Peace
Post by: P-N on 07:43 07-May-2008
Seeing him today again Keith - will see if i can get a copy and scan it.  I assue it will be no problem as it is not a state secret  :-\
Title: Re: Visa & Registration Questions - Ask Now or Forever Hold Your Peace
Post by: ecocks on 10:12 07-May-2008
I see people losing their money too.

Idiots are idiots regardless of which country you go to.

Buying property has a few nuances like the restrictions on agricultural land, but it is mostly a matter of navigating the bureaucracy and finding the right pieces of paper to get signed. Every country has different rules regarding planning, zoning and such - it is no problem, just different processes. 

I think this is true if you want buy an appartement or a small land plot for yourself. In fact I was speaking about set up a businness in Ukraine.

For the rest I think Nik is right and he has found an intelligent way to do it  ;)

Well, when I decided to setup a small business I went to a lawyer (it took two tries to find one who actually understood I wanted it done within 12 months, but I have had bad lawyers in the states too), told them what I wanted and five weeks later, I had a company.  Not sure why it is a problem.  The bureacracy is not really much different from anywhere else.  A few different forms, the requirement to stamp documents and the cute little completion form (the Akt) and then it's learn how to make your payments to the pension/insurance/tax funds and do payroll.  Not that much different than the periodic American withholding taxes and SS payments except maybe we just mailed them instead of transferring them into an account.
Title: Re: Visa & Registration Questions - Ask Now or Forever Hold Your Peace
Post by: P-N on 12:48 07-May-2008
Seeing him today again Keith - will see if i can get a copy and scan it.  I assue it will be no problem as it is not a state secret  :-\

Not seeing him today now - 14.30 tomorrow so hope to get a copy then Keith  :)
Title: Re: Visa & Registration Questions - Ask Now or Forever Hold Your Peace
Post by: matlockk on 14:42 07-May-2008
Can you check it's the right decree number? I looked on their website and there is no 990 decree visible around April 9th????
Title: Re: Visa & Registration Questions - Ask Now or Forever Hold Your Peace
Post by: buba on 15:30 07-May-2008
Dear ecocks,

I think we dont understand each other, and for sure because of my very poor english  :-\

I was speaking about real estate businness. The problem here is not the bureaucracy. In two words locals simply wont let you do much in this field.

If you become "a problem" they can easy take your company, send you to prison or even worst. In the early 90's Kiev was a far west and the same people are still in businness.
Title: Re: Visa & Registration Questions - Ask Now or Forever Hold Your Peace
Post by: P-N on 15:32 07-May-2008
I will double check with him no problem Keith.  Like I say if I can get a copy of it, I will scan and post also.

As stated I am with him at 1430 tomorrow so hopefully I will be able to correct or corroborate accordingly regarding the decree number if I cannot scan and post it.  :)
Title: Re: Visa & Registration Questions - Ask Now or Forever Hold Your Peace
Post by: P-N on 15:45 08-May-2008
OK - I have an apology to make to all - the Decree number is 909 (not the 990 as I initially posted  :-[) but the origin and date of the document is correct as per the initial post at the bottom of page 1 of thread.

So it is Cabinet Minitry of Ukraine Decree 909 dated 9th April 2008  you are looking for.  It is not yet posted on the Ukrainian Government website however.

There has also been two changes, one regarding married Expats to Ukrainian nationals since my last post and another relating to Expats who own their own apartments or houses.

1.  Those married under 2 years (and therefore awaiting Permanent Residency Status) must pay health insurance to the OVIR via nominated banks.  There is no form to complete (yet at least) but your local OVIR will tell you which bank to go to.  Simply tell the cashier it is insurance for the OVIR and they will give you a receipt to return to the OVIR - the annual fee is 388 UAH.  In Odessa it is Impex Bank.

2.  There has also been a change regarding registration with the Zhek for foreign nationals who own their house or apartment in Ukraine.  Quite simply any foreign national who owns their home here, (married or not to a Ukrainian) only needs to register with the OVIR now.  If you own your own home here as a foreigner there is now no requirement for Zhek resistration.

Before you all ask which Decree and date etc. etc. he could not remember the number but will give me all the details on Monday 12th May to post here.  These changes came into force in the last few days  ::)

I do not have a copy of the Decree 909 to post, but I do have a copy of the internal instructions for the Odessa OVIR, Immigration and Customs officers which relate to the changes in Decree 909.  Being Odessa they are all written in Russian, not Ukrainian  ;).

I will scan and post them tomorrow as I need to translate all into English to post underneath for those who cannot read Russian.  In effect there will be 5 scanned pages of Russian relating to Visa and Registration changes in Decree 909 and then however many pages of English translation.  :)




Title: Re: Visa & Registration Questions - Ask Now or Forever Hold Your Peace
Post by: P-N on 17:06 08-May-2008
For those interested - this "Guidance" document has also just been faxed to the Kyiv Post at their request, so maybe you will read it their paper too in the not to distant future.............I assume they will corroborate everything prior to publication.  (Maybe I will get a free annual subscription  :D :D :D :D :D)
Title: Re: Visa & Registration Questions - Ask Now or Forever Hold Your Peace
Post by: buba on 18:17 08-May-2008
That confirms what I was writing in a precedent post:

Marriage has nothing to do with permanent resident status.

You still have to register your adress in Ukraine (OVIR- new stamp in passeport- i can scan it if need) and pay your insurance. Without this registration stamp (other then marriage stamp) you are not free to enter in Ukraine when you want.

So nothing has changed (in my opinion of course)
Title: Re: Visa & Registration Questions - Ask Now or Forever Hold Your Peace
Post by: P-N on 18:38 08-May-2008
It does give you permanent leave to remain here without visa or having to leave until you have been married 2 years (should you so wish) and guarantees you permanent status on 2 years of marriage now.  I guess something must have changed to have a new decree...........will try again on Monday to get an actual copy of this decree.......anyway I am just the messenger from the Odessa OVIR and I am subject to how the Odessa OVIR enforce and interpret the rules as I live here, so as long as I comply with how they interpret these rules they are happy  :D :D :D :D :D
Title: Re: Visa & Registration Questions - Ask Now or Forever Hold Your Peace
Post by: buba on 21:06 08-May-2008
Yes you can stay without visa in Ukraine, but before you have to register at OVIR. Exactly the same procedure as before. The same for the 2 years rule.

And the problem for many is not how the local administration interpret the rules but if you can or not pass the borders at Boryspol.
Title: Re: Visa & Registration Questions - Ask Now or Forever Hold Your Peace
Post by: Carlusha on 20:20 09-May-2008
Images on behalf of Nick. These are Nos. 448 to 452. Nick will provide salient translation details later.

http://www.mediafire.com/imageview.php?quickkey=h0zjs0y2ze1&thumb=4 (http://www.mediafire.com/imageview.php?quickkey=h0zjs0y2ze1&thumb=4)

http://www.mediafire.com/imageview.php?quickkey=0ynyyfdd0uz&thumb=4 (http://www.mediafire.com/imageview.php?quickkey=0ynyyfdd0uz&thumb=4)

http://www.mediafire.com/imageview.php?quickkey=1nzi0jegkdx&thumb=4 (http://www.mediafire.com/imageview.php?quickkey=1nzi0jegkdx&thumb=4)

http://www.mediafire.com/imageview.php?quickkey=n9nimmyuxbi&thumb=4 (http://www.mediafire.com/imageview.php?quickkey=n9nimmyuxbi&thumb=4)

http://www.mediafire.com/imageview.php?quickkey=hgpigxdm9sy&thumb=4 (http://www.mediafire.com/imageview.php?quickkey=hgpigxdm9sy&thumb=4)


I am just trying out the Mediafire service - Click the link to see the document. You will see it displayed as "small" size, change display to "medium". You may also download the file.
Title: Re: Visa & Registration Questions - Ask Now or Forever Hold Your Peace
Post by: P-N on 07:29 10-May-2008
The English translation for the above documents.  Please ntoe the sentances are not structured corretly in English as I didn't want to "interpret" anything and will allow you to do that yourselves.  All of this information (and more) is on publice display in Odessa OVIR and is changed and updated as changes occur.  I still intend to make one more attempt to get a copy of Decree 909 on Monday 12th at 1400, as there is other information I require for someone in Kyiv anyway  ;)

**********************************************************************************

The GENERAL PROVISIONS

The visa-free mode of entrance of transit travel through territory of Ukraine is established for the countries-members of the European Union, Switzerland, Japan, the USA, Canada, the Princedom Liechtenstein, Princedoms Andorra, the States-cities Vatican, Republics Iceland, the Princedom of Monaco, Kingdom Norway, Republic San Marino, Republic Korea if term of their stay in Ukraine does not exceed 90 days


THE VISA-FREE MODE DOES NOT EXTEND:

- On immigration types of visas,
- On the persons driving to Ukraine with the purpose of training, work in diplomatic representatives and consular establishments in Ukraine;
- With other purpose if term of their stay in Ukraine will exceed 90 day.

All categories of visas are made out diplomatic by representations consular establishments of Ukraine abroad


FOR CITIZENS OF TURKEY THE INVITATION FOR REGISTRATION OF VISAS OF TYPES IS NOT REQUIRED:

- S (service), B (business), Н (scientific), C (cultural silt a sports exchange), P (private).
To the citizens of Turkish Republic driving to Ukraine with the tourist purpose the sanction for entrance to Ukraine by consular items at international airports " Simferopols " " Odessa ", Odessa sea trading to port, for the period of 14 day can be issued at presence of documents which confirm tourist character of a trip.

Citizens of the states with whom Ukraine has concluded the international agreements on visa-free prodrivings citizens, drive to Ukraine and leave Ukraine without visas under documents, valid for trip abroad, at presence of properly issued invitation (in the original) from legal silt of physical persons in Ukraine if another is not stipulated international by contracts of Ukraine.

To their number concern internal and passports for travel abroad. About 16 years are put follow to Ukraine under the birth certificate.

For entrance to Ukraine for citizens of Bulgaria and Romania on principles of reciprocity the visa mode operates.
- For citizens of Bulgaria - according to the Agreement between the Cabinet of Ukraine and the Government of Republic of Bulgaria about mutual trips of citizens from 11/15/2001 of year;
- For citizens of Romania according to the Agreement between the Cabinet of Ukraine and the Government the Romanian about conditions mutual trips of citizens from 3/24/2004 of year


THE DOCUMENTS NECESSARY FOR REGISTRATION OF VISAS.

The type of the visa depends on the purpose of a trip to Ukraine.

The diplomatic visa is made out to the persons having diplomatic passports:

- To the diplomatic personnel of foreign representations and consular establishments in Ukraine, to members of their families;
 
THE SERVICE VISA IS SUBDIVIDED INTO THREE CATEGORIES AND MADE OUT:
 С-1 - to technicians of foreign diplomatic representatives and consular establishments in Ukraine, to members of their families;
- To representatives of the international organizations in Ukraine;
- To representatives of bodies of the government of the foreign states who drive to Ukraine on affairs of service.
С-2 - to representatives of military formations and establishments who drive to Ukraine on affairs of service under the invitation of corresponding state bodies.
С-3 - to representatives of industrial, trading, financial and political circles who drive to Ukraine on affairs of service under the invitation of the official bodies registered in Ukraine when due hereunder.

FOR REGISTRATION OF THE BUSINESS VISA (В) IN THE CONSULAR DEPARTMENT IT IS NECESSARY TO PRESENT:

- The original of the invitation from the organization registered in Ukraine, on the firm form, with the instruction of the legal address and phone. In it is invited necessarily should be the purpose of a trip, its terms is specified, cities of visiting in Ukraine, and also number and a series of the passport invited also are specified;

- A copy of the certificate on the state registration of the inviting organization.
o Ukraine with missions of diplomatic character;
- To diplomatic couriers;
- To members of the governments, parliaments, the international organizations;
- To outstanding politicians which entrance to Ukraine has diplomatic character.

FOR REGISTRATION OF THE VISA (H) IN THE CONSULAR DEPARTMENT IT IS NECESSARY FOR REPRESENTATIVES OF HUMANITARIAN MISSIONS TO PRESENT:

- Acknowledgement of the Commission at Cabinet Ukrany concerning coordination, reception, transportation, protection and distribution of the humanitarian help acting from the foreign states.

FOR REGISTRATION OF THE VISA TO WORKERS OF SAVING SERVICES (L) IN THE CONSULAR DEPARTMENT IT IS NECESSARY TO PRESENT:

- The acknowledgement which has been given out by the Ministry of Emergency Measures of Ukraine.

FOR REGISTRATION OF THE STUDENT'S VISA (S) IN THE CONSULAR DEPARTMENT IT IS NECESSARY TO PRESENT:

- The invitation of the established sample to the training which has been given out by the Ministry of FOR REGISTRATION OF THE VISA TO EMPLOYEES OF MASS-MEDIA (M) IN THE CONSULAR DEPARTMENT IT IS NECESSARY TO PRESENT:

- The order of the Ministry for Foreign Affairs of Ukraine concerning registration of the visa.

FOR REGISTRATION OF THE VISA (R) IN THE CONSULAR DEPARTMENT IT IS NECESSARY FOR REPRESENTATIVES OF RELIGIOUS MISSIONS TO PRESENT:

- The invitation of the religious organization, certified State the committee concerning religion at the Cabinet of Ukraine.
Education of Ukraine.


THE BASIS FOR REGISTRATION OF THE TRANSIT VISA IS:

ТР-1 - presence of the document which confirms transit character of a trip (the visa in the third country, the ticket)
ТР-2 - documents which confirm transit character of transportations with cargo motor transport passenger bus transport through territory of Ukraine.

FOR REGISTRATION of the VISA of TYPE (ОП) FOR the ATTENDANTS of VEHICLES of the INTERNATIONAL CONNECTION In the CONSULAR DEPARTMENT it is necessary TO GIVE:

- The license for realization of the international transportations, given out by corresponding competent body of a host country.

FOR REGISTRATION OF IMMIGRATION VISA IM-1 IN THE CONSULAR DEPARTMENT IT IS NECESSARY TO GIVE:


- The sanction to the work, issued by Minister of work and social policy of Ukraine.

FOR REGISTRATION OF THE IMMIGRATION VISA OF TYPE IM-2 IN THE CONSULAR DEPARTMENT IT IS NECESSARY TO GIVE:

- The sanction of local enforcement authority to constant residing in Ukraine.

FOR REGISTRATION OF PRIVATE VISA П-1 IT IS NECESSARY TO PRESENT TO THE CONSULAR DEPARTMENT:

- The invitation of the established sample issued properly in competent bodies of Ministry of Internal Affairs Ukraniny, silt of the invitation of the Ukrainian medical establishment, and also other documents confirming private character of a trip.


VISA П-2 (FOR PERSONS OF THE UKRAINIAN ORIGIN) - STANDS OUT ONLY IN THE COUNTRY OF THEIR CONSTANT RESIDING.
FOR REGISTRATION OF THIS VISA IN THE CONSULAR DEPARTMENT IT IS NECESSARY TO GIVE:

- The personal application written by results of interview with the worker of diplomatic representatives or consular establishment of Ukraine to which duties on decision-making concerning registration of such visa are assigned, and also the documents confirming the Ukrainian origin of the foreigner or the person without citizenship
According to the decision of the Cabinet of Ukraine from 8/9/2001 of year of №1003 visas to persons of the Ukrainian origin are made out for the term of till five years

FOR REGISTRATION OF THE TOURIST VISA (T) IN THE CONSULAR DEPARTMENT IT IS NECESSARY TO GIVE THE DOCUMENTS CONFIRMING TOURIST CHARACTER OF THE TRIP:

- The tourist permit, given out by the tourist organization of Ukraine?;
- The voucher which has been given out by the tourist organization;
- Acknowledgement of hotels of Ukraine which are engaged in tourist activity about payment of residing;
- The air ticket in both parties from the Ukrainian national air carrier (only for citizens of the USA, Canada and Japan)

Visas of other types are made out on the basis of the reference of bodies of the government of the foreign states, the international organizations, invitations of the ministries, other central enforcement authorities, and also invitations established by the Cabinet of Ukraine from physical persons and legal persons of Ukraine

In case of need, the employee of diplomatic representatives silt of consular establishment of Ukraine can demand the friend documents which specify the purpose of a trip of the foreigner or the person without citizenship, and also to invite this or that person for additional interview


VALIDITY of VISAS:
The Unitary and double visa:
- For citizens of Turkey - till 6 months.
- For citizens of other countries and persons without citizenship - till 3 months

The Multi-visa
- It is made out for the term of 1 year, however a total result of stay in Ukraine should not exceed 90 days


The NOTE: From today the Ukrainian legislation on the Family code certain the visa-free order of entrance of foreigners (foreign citizens and persons without citizenship) to Ukraine. The foreign citizens who have married citizens of Ukraine can be in territory of Ukraine, leave and drive without restrictions at presence of registration.

Documents for registration

- A copy of the marriage certficate
- A copy of the passport
- Registration in ZEK (on a residence)
- 4 photos

********************************************************************************************

Those who can read Russian, feel free to check my translation - I am not claiming to be an expert  :D

If I do get a copy of Decree 909 - it will obviously be in Ukrainian and I will not attempt to translate it just post it up here via Carl again.  (My IT skills are poor ::) - and my Ukrainian even worse  :D) but I am sure some kind sole with translate it if I can get it.  :-\
Title: Re: Visa & Registration Questions - Ask Now or Forever Hold Your Peace
Post by: ecocks on 12:47 12-May-2008
Nick:

Thanks SO much for your on-going efforts in tracking down hard information on this subject.  It is a Thankless Job (no, wait several people DID thank you!) but we are indebted to you for it.

The enforcement of these procedures are supposed to kick in full-bore this week, so it will be interesting to see what stories transpire regarding fines, arrests, incidents and procedures.

Again, THANKS!              ;D
Title: Re: Visa & Registration Questions - Ask Now or Forever Hold Your Peace
Post by: Sweeper5150 on 13:08 12-May-2008
Thank you so much for confirming what I had only heard though the rumor mill.  It is good to know that I can come and go as I want as long as I do not get a new passport.  My Marriage stamp is in this one.

On a separate but related note I have been told that registration is required with OVIR even after I qualify for the "Blue Card" (Permanent Resident Status?)  I have my Private Entrepreneur now and Current Registration but I will have to renew this as they only gave me 6 months.  I went to an insurance agency here in Kyiv and paid $100 for one year’s mandatory insurance even though I have Providna as my Health insurance here.  Is this correct.
I live in Kyiv so I understand it may be a little different from Odessa.

Thank You
Title: Re: Visa & Registration Questions - Ask Now or Forever Hold Your Peace
Post by: P-N on 16:46 12-May-2008
Whilst being forced to hob-nob with Odessa City's political elite today  ::), I was not able to get a copy of Decree 909 due to insufficient time.

The good news is "somebody in power" here understands our frustration and has "requested  ;)" that I have a copy of it in my possession this week.

Apologies for the continued delay, but short of someone wanting a very short policital career here  ;), I should have a copy of the "Holly Grail" which is Decree 909 this week.   :)
Title: Re: Visa & Registration Questions - Ask Now or Forever Hold Your Peace
Post by: buba on 17:57 12-May-2008
I also think that we all have to say thx to Pompey  :).

But be careful because the most important information given is WRONG.

Just with a marriage stamp you cannot stay in Ukraine. You still have to register.

Typical situation of conflict of laws. In this case family law vs immigration law.

Be sure that at borders immigration law is enforced.
Title: Re: Visa & Registration Questions - Ask Now or Forever Hold Your Peace
Post by: P-N on 18:15 12-May-2008
When I do get it (and now I feel confident that I will) it will be written in Ukrainian (as it comes from the RADA) and therefore I cannot translate it (with any level of accuracy anyway).

I will post it up (via Carl again probably due to my embarrasingly poor IT skills  ::)) and then you can print and take to lawyers and let them interpret it as they will.

If somebody is fluent in Ukrainian and will translate it for all and also post here...........I will be thanking you.

I just hope nothing in the raft of legislation this week required to complete WTO assention on the 16th(ish)changes eveything again  ::)...........still doesn't it make life interesting??  :D :D :D :D :D

 
Title: Re: Visa & Registration Questions - Ask Now or Forever Hold Your Peace
Post by: Carlusha on 19:30 12-May-2008
No problem, Nik

(http://cache.images.soccerway.com/new/teams/673.gif)
Title: Re: Visa & Registration Questions - Ask Now or Forever Hold Your Peace
Post by: buba on 19:59 12-May-2008
Yes i can help you if you want. Of course i will not make the translation...no ukrainian nore english skill. But my lawyer is a very good one and speak very well your language. He didnt find any decision until now. Are you sure it is a "rada" decision..or ministry cabinet?

Title: Re: Visa & Registration Questions - Ask Now or Forever Hold Your Peace
Post by: P-N on 05:28 13-May-2008
Cabinet Ministry Of Ukraine (for clarification) but as it comes from Kyiv I am certain it will be in Ukrainian no Russian.........which rules out my limited translation skills  :D
Title: Re: Visa & Registration Questions - Ask Now or Forever Hold Your Peace
Post by: ecocks on 09:57 13-May-2008
"But my lawyer is a very good one and speak very well your language."

Oddly, everyone's lawyer is a "very good one", until you actually want something done.  Then you undergo the test.

Maybe you do have a great one, but this is about the fifth time this year I have heard similar comments and it always seems to take about 3-4 more referrals before finding one that actually does any work.

Title: Re: Visa & Registration Questions - Ask Now or Forever Hold Your Peace
Post by: buba on 10:19 13-May-2008
It's like for wine. More then 350 USD per hour = good lawyer.
Title: Re: Visa & Registration Questions - Ask Now or Forever Hold Your Peace
Post by: ecocks on 11:03 13-May-2008

More than $350USD/hour = Good Client     ::)

                               :o

Too Funny.     :D   
Title: Re: Visa & Registration Questions - Ask Now or Forever Hold Your Peace
Post by: buba on 11:30 13-May-2008
Not very funny in fact   ::)

I dont know in which kind of businness you are or if you have any experience with this. This is the normal price for a serious commercial lawyer in Kiev.

Dont worry i m not stupid and will not pay more then market price.
Title: Re: Visa & Registration Questions - Ask Now or Forever Hold Your Peace
Post by: buba on 11:41 13-May-2008
Of course I m speaking about average lawyers. If you need the "best legal services" in town, i.e. Baker McKenzie...is 750+ USD per hour
Title: Re: Visa & Registration Questions - Ask Now or Forever Hold Your Peace
Post by: matlockk on 15:50 15-May-2008
So I finally got my IM-1 visa into OVIR. Fingers crossed. The marriage stamp didn't help as you have to take your wedding certificate to OVIR and I think they would have spotted the Russianess of my better half.
Title: Re: Visa & Registration Questions - Ask Now or Forever Hold Your Peace
Post by: buba on 19:05 27-May-2008
any news? does this decree exist?  :-\
Title: Re: Visa & Registration Questions - Ask Now or Forever Hold Your Peace
Post by: matlockk on 19:56 27-May-2008
So I finally got my IM-1 visa into OVIR. Fingers crossed. The marriage stamp didn't help as you have to take your wedding certificate to OVIR and I think they would have spotted the Russianess of my better half.

Picked up the documents and passport from OVIR last week. I have a card which says I have residence in Ukraine until my IM-1 expires and can come and go as I please.
Title: Re: Visa & Registration Questions - Ask Now or Forever Hold Your Peace
Post by: buba on 20:11 27-May-2008
good. was in boryspol they checked with calculator my days... :-\

even if i m married with ukrainian...they say nothing to do with immigration rules unless you have a permit...
Title: Re: Visa & Registration Questions - Ask Now or Forever Hold Your Peace
Post by: Vernie on 16:06 02-Jun-2008
It would be a great relief to me if somehow the authorities would recognise my nearly 8 year marriage to a Ukrainian lady as going some way to excusing my long overdue visa  :-\  Are there anyway some steps I can take now to lessen the blow when it comes as I try to leave Ukraine - even never to return if that helps although I'll need to take the family with though.  Some awkward bureaucratic requirements in the beginning started the process of delaying my visa renewal indefinitely.
Title: Re: Visa & Registration Questions - Ask Now or Forever Hold Your Peace
Post by: dazure on 16:30 02-Jun-2008
Speaking about lawyers. My lawyer gives me a fixed price for doing a specific job. Not an hourly rate.
That way we both know where we are. I know by comparison that his prices are reasonable.
He accounts for his time and if he is under he gives money back (yes) :).
If he is over he grits his teeth and puts it down to learning curve expenses :-\.
Title: Re: Visa & Registration Questions - Ask Now or Forever Hold Your Peace
Post by: Sweeper5150 on 11:37 23-Jun-2008
Please take anything on this site with a large grain of salt or you could wind up in the same situation as I am in.  My Registration expires in 4 days and I cannot get out of the country that quick so I am sure to be fined.

I have to report that in Kyiv this is not the case. :'(
I have just come from the Ministry of the interior and spoke with the woman that is in charge of all registration of foreigner in Ukraine.  She has stated that as of June the cabinet decree's were only up to the 500's 909 does not exist.  She could find nothing with this number.

I am now being forced to go out of the country and obtain a visa so I can live here with my Wife.  (a Ukrainian.)


Title: Re: Visa & Registration Questions - Ask Now or Forever Hold Your Peace
Post by: editor_moscow on 13:34 23-Jun-2008
Hello. I have been reluctant to post before now, but you have inspired me. I am also in the process of applying for my permanent residence. We have all but one document ready and it looks like it might go ahead, but let me share my experience as to how things are proceeding (at least at the regional OVIR) regarding this application.

My husband, a Ukrainian citizen, and I have met several times now with the chief person responsible for dealing with foreigners. We have been told the same thing as Sweeper5150 relayed - that no decision has actually been taken, but that this is a draft/ proposal. As such, there is no directive to OVIR officials to speed the process up for anyone married longer than two years and with a child.

I have met one person whose application was accelerated based on the birth of a child, but he explained to me that this happened because his child was born as a citizen of Ukraine to a mother who is a citizen of Ukraine. It was during the process of registering the baby to receive her birth certificate that OVIR officials agreed to speed up his application. Of course, that was his explanation. Mind you, I have my suspicions that this all happened smoothly because his wife's family are just extremely well connected.

OK.Again about our meeting with the OVIR official. We were told that because no directive has come down the pipeline to OVIR officials in the regions, the process by which I could receive my permanent residence would still likely take one year. She did qualify, however, that if within that time period the proposed law is passed and the directive channels down to OVIR offices, then the process may be done quicker.

Disheartened, I then proceeded to learn what my options are, since I certainly need to stay in the country and cannot be subject to any 180-day rule. I asked her about that rule and she said that to date, it IS in force and IT ISN'T in force......... :)   She then proceeded to qualify that border officials have received the directive to enforce this 180-day rule, which will make it difficult for us foreigners to simply continue doing a border run, with the aim of returning to Ukraine shortly afterwards. Indeed OVIR officials are aware of this legislation but they, themselves, have not received the directive to enforce it or to change their Standard Operating Procedures with respect to processing foreigners in any way. Sooooo... she explained to me that I could feasibly remain in the country by:
1) staying here for my full visa-free 90 days;
2) register my presence with their OVIR office when I hand in my application for permanent residence (which should be shortly and certainly within the allowable 90 days);
3) extend my stay in Ukraine by six months (based on my registration at my husband's address). Unlike receiving a visitor visa, in order for a Ukrainian citizen to register a prolongation of your visit to Ukraine, they must be a home owner and not simply a renter. I guess that would be the landlord for some people, or just a good friend;
4) a few days before this six month term comes to its end, apply for another extension to your visit. The maximum allowable extension is six months, though it is at their discretion whether they allow you three or six, depending on your stated reason for wanting to extend your stay. "To spend time with family" and "I'm engaged to be married to a Ukrainian" always work and so does "I'm waiting for my permanent residence application to be processed", if these situations apply to you.

By then, the permanent resident application should have been processed. My philosophy is that I better be safe than sorry, so as soon as I visit Kiev again, I'm hauling hubby, our passports and our wedding certificate into the ZAGs office where we got married and getting the stamp from them that says I have the right to stick around (and thus, won't risk overstaying my visit) in any case.  Then I'll show the stamp to the local OVIR officials and see how they react to it.
 
I'll keep you all posted as to how things develop.

Cheers, Shauna
Title: Re: Visa & Registration Questions - Ask Now or Forever Hold Your Peace
Post by: ecocks on 13:46 23-Jun-2008
Go Shauna, Go Shauna, Go Shauna!

Heyyyyyyy-OH!

Heyyyyyyy-OH!

LOL!

Ed
Title: Re: Visa & Registration Questions - Ask Now or Forever Hold Your Peace
Post by: Sweeper5150 on 15:00 23-Jun-2008
Shauna,

Thank you. Let me add that I have the marriage stamp in my passport.  It does me no good, until I actually have the "BlueCard" which I can't apply for until September 1st I must have a visa.  They have just given me 2 weeks to go and get one.  I am going to ask for an addtional 2 weeks on Wednesday as my wallet was stolen on the 14th.  I am waiting for my new cards so I can book flights and hotels whereever I wind up going.
Title: Re: Visa & Registration Questions - Ask Now or Forever Hold Your Peace
Post by: rjm on 21:04 23-Jun-2008
Yes I was in Ovir 10 days ago and was lucky enough to have been given an appointment with the top guy in OVIR on T Shevchenko, he was clueless about the new regulations on 90 day rule and registration after 3 months rule and wasnt even aware that fines were being handed out for people who hadnt registered, this proves the whole situation is in complete disarray.

Much has been written on this topic and as you rightly so most of it is not correct, the truth is that there is still no definite rule, new laws have been introduced but are not being enforced regarding the 90 day rule, I know of someone whos friend hopped out of Ukraine into Poland last Friday and came back next day to start another 90 days.

The only thing that does appear to be enforced is the fine at Boryspol if you have not registered at OVIR in 3 months, so I advise everyone to make sure that they do this. (although I know that for many its impossible to get an address to use)

My advice to everyone here who has a visa is to make sure they are registered (even if they have to pay the 340gr fine at OVIR that I had to) then get the visa extended the week before it expires in tbe way that Shauna describes, this is a better option in my view than having to leave the country for a border run which might be refused re entry or an expensive trip for another visa to Warsaw or Krakow.



 
Please take anything on this site with a large grain of salt or you could wind up in the same situation as I am in.  My Registration expires in 4 days and I cannot get out of the country that quick so I am sure to be fined.

I have to report that in Kyiv this is not the case. :'(
I have just come from the Ministry of the interior and spoke with the woman that is in charge of all registration of foreigner in Ukraine.  She has stated that as of June the cabinet decree's were only up to the 500's 909 does not exist.  She could find nothing with this number.

I am now being forced to go out of the country and obtain a visa so I can live here with my Wife.  (a Ukrainian.)



Title: Re: Visa & Registration Questions - Ask Now or Forever Hold Your Peace
Post by: AlexMc on 10:26 02-Jul-2008
Can anyone recommend a reliable law office or agency that can assist in obtaining a permanent residency status in Ukraine?  I understand that it is possible to obtain a permanent residency status in Ukraine when you are married to a Ukrainian for longer than 2 years and you do not need to bother about work permit or entry visas with such a status at all.    Many thanks in advance for any useful information. 

Kind regards,

Alex
alexmccall@yahoo.co.uk
Title: Re: Visa & Registration Questions - Ask Now or Forever Hold Your Peace
Post by: AlexMc on 07:01 03-Jul-2008
Can anyone recommend a reliable law office or agency that can assist in obtaining a permanent residency status in Ukraine?  I understand that it is possible to obtain a permanent residency status in Ukraine when you are married to a Ukrainian for longer than 2 years and you do not need to bother about work permit or entry visas with such a status at all.    Many thanks in advance for any useful information. 

Kind regards,

Alex
alexmccall@yahoo.co.uk



Thanks for the recommendations to all those who droped e-mails to my mailbox.   Jonathan Burns of Carlton Legal (carltoninfo@ukr.net) proved the most helpful in respect of the immigration law in Ukraine and specifically about obtaining permenent residency status in Ukraine.  I would recommend Jonathan for this type of work for anyone.
Title: Re: Visa & Registration Questions - Ask Now or Forever Hold Your Peace
Post by: BritKyiv on 10:07 07-Jul-2008
Just want to share some expensive legal advice (I knew this already but we had to get it from a law firm).
I already have a work permit which expires in April 2009, but my visa expires on 7 August 2008 (The two were not connected previously). I asked the law firm to get me a new work permit because I am working for another company in addition to my current job. Obviously I knew they could not get me a new work permit before 7 August (not enough time they say). So here is their advice:

Ukrainian migration law requires that a foreigner who obtained a work permit for employment in Ukraine obtain a work visa (IM-1 type).  A Ukrainian work visa is issued for single entry  only.  Therefore, to be able to travel in and out of country as business requires, such foreigner needs a Ukrainian temporary residence permit , in addition.  After  such permit is obtained, the foreigner can enter Ukraine on the basis of the passport containing a stamp confirming  that a work permit and a temporary residence permit have been issued in Ukraine to such foreigner.
 
Please note that Ukrainian legislation allows citizen of some countries, including Great Britain, to enter Ukraine without any visa for up to 90 days for a private or business visit (but not for the purpose of work).  Also, after Ukraine has become a member of  the WTO ( i.e., from 16 May 2008), new rules for foreigners' stay in Ukraine became enforceable.   In particular, a foreigner coming from a country-member of the WTO shall be temporary registered at the Ukrainian border (by the borderguards) for not more than a total of 180 days within a calendar year. This means that if there is a probability that a foreigner may need to spend more than 180 days during a year  in Ukraine, he/she should apply for prolongation of the stay with OVIR at least three work days before the 180 days threshold will be exceeded by  the foreigner.   

We draw your attention that the 90-days' and  the 180-days' rules are not meant to be a way around the requirement for obtaining a work visa and a temporary residence permit  for any foreigner with a Ukrainian work permit.  Such approach has always been a clear violation of the applicable legislation, because a work permit and a temporary residence certificate have been  the "must have" documents for any foreign employee in Ukraine for a long time already.  Upon your request, we may provide you with detailed description of steps which should be undertaken by the foreigner and the company-employer in order to achieve full compliance with the migration law requirements applicable to employment of foreign employees.

Therefore, we recommend that you leave Ukraine before your current visa expires, and then apply for a work visa on the basis of the work permit which you already possess.  Such visa should be issued to you for the remaining period of validity of your existing work permit (April 2009).  Once in Ukraine, you should apply for a temporary residency certificate to be able to leave Ukraine and return whenever you deem it necessary.   Upon your request, we will provide you with detailed advice on how to apply for a temporary residency certificate and the necessary prerequisites.  Once your new work permit is in place, you may continue to use your work visa and temporary residency certificate until their expiry (and apply for extension of stay in Ukraine sometime before on the basis of your new work permit).


Concerning the last paragraph, I was not aware of this (Ability to change work permits under the same IM1 visa???)
This is from one of the top law firms in Ukraine....so it must be correct?  :-\

But its failry clear now what I have to do.
Actually this is probably the most clear advice I have EVER had in Ukraine concerning these issues.
Title: Re: Visa & Registration Questions - Ask Now or Forever Hold Your Peace
Post by: Sweeper5150 on 15:49 19-Aug-2008
I just wanted update everyone on the Visa Process.  I went to Moldova and was able to get my visa very easily.  There were many people there but almost all of them were Russians looking to get a letter saying they were not Ukrainians.  It went very fast and was relatively easy. ;D
Title: Re: Visa & Registration Questions - Ask Now or Forever Hold Your Peace
Post by: JonathanCampion on 15:51 19-Aug-2008
I bet the queue was shorter than the line of Ukrainians wanting to prove they weren't Russian :-)
Title: Re: Visa & Registration Questions - Ask Now or Forever Hold Your Peace
Post by: karo on 17:58 20-Aug-2008
I have a "new" registration question.  If you are here for 3 months you need to register with OVIR.  We have done this in the past without problem.  Our passports have been "in process" with OVIR since Aug 1.   Is it expected that they would hang on to our passports for this long? 

We also heard a rumor, which we hope is untrue, is that we are in the country illegally, because the law changed, and we need to leave and return every three months.  Well at the moment we can't leave since we don't have our passports!

I'm new here to this forum, but hopefully someone can help us out here.  Thanks!
Title: Re: Visa & Registration Questions - Ask Now or Forever Hold Your Peace
Post by: P-N on 18:02 20-Aug-2008
Welcome karo - I have to say that it is "unusual" for the OVIR to have kept it this long although my experience is limited only to the OVIR in Odessa - it may well be longer in other cities for all I know.

The current law states (if you are here without a visa granting an extension) you can only be here 90 days from a 180 day period.

Not much help to you though I know.

Title: Re: Visa & Registration Questions - Ask Now or Forever Hold Your Peace
Post by: karo on 19:24 20-Aug-2008
Thanks PN, I am in Odessa. 

We (our family)have visas, and used to register without problems, every 90 days.

An added element which we just found out (today, after they kept our passports for three weeks!) is that the law changed and our inviting organization is no longer able to register people.  It is a Hum. Aid org.  It was news to our organization as well as to us.  Do you know anything about this new law?


*******
Welcome karo - I have to say that it is "unusual" for the OVIR to have kept it this long although my experience is limited only to the OVIR in Odessa - it may well be longer in other cities for all I know.

The current law states (if you are here without a visa granting an extension) you can only be here 90 days from a 180 day period.

Not much help to you though I know
Title: Re: Visa & Registration Questions - Ask Now or Forever Hold Your Peace
Post by: P-N on 19:26 20-Aug-2008
Thanks PN, I am in Odessa. 

We have a visa, and used to register without problems, every 90 days.

An added element which we just found out (today, after they kept our passports for three weeks!) is that the law changed and our inviting organization is no longer able to register people.  It is a Hum. Aid org.  It was news to our organization as well as to us.  Do you know anything about this new law?


*******
Welcome karo - I have to say that it is "unusual" for the OVIR to have kept it this long although my experience is limited only to the OVIR in Odessa - it may well be longer in other cities for all I know.

The current law states (if you are here without a visa granting an extension) you can only be here 90 days from a 180 day period.

Not much help to you though I know

Sent you a PM - some things are best not discussed in the open forum.
Title: Re: Visa & Registration Questions - Ask Now or Forever Hold Your Peace
Post by: rjm on 21:00 20-Aug-2008
This does not sound correct Karo.

They should not be holding your passport, did they issue you a document with your photo on that passes as a temp passport while this proccess is being done? They should have!!!!

Please keep us posted on developments on this, there have been many confusing issues surrounding this new 90 day registration rule and it would be good to know what is happening to other people.

Although Im registered I have "some help"in this area but without this help I would be crossing into Poland every 3 months as it is less hassle in my experience!!!!!!!!!!

I have a "new" registration question.  If you are here for 3 months you need to register with OVIR.  We have done this in the past without problem.  Our passports have been "in process" with OVIR since Aug 1.   Is it expected that they would hang on to our passports for this long? 

We also heard a rumor, which we hope is untrue, is that we are in the country illegally, because the law changed, and we need to leave and return every three months.  Well at the moment we can't leave since we don't have our passports!

I'm new here to this forum, but hopefully someone can help us out here.  Thanks!
Title: Re: Visa & Registration Questions - Ask Now or Forever Hold Your Peace
Post by: ecocks on 11:42 30-Aug-2008
Problem with that "temp passport" is it is only good internally.  It won't work across the border.

I was concerned a couple of years ago when I did my first registration and my wife (girlfriend at the time) came home without my passport.  When I became upset, she said no problem and pulled out that piece of paper with one of my passport pics on it and I really went crazy.  If something happened, family emergency, state of war, medical evacuation, etc. this would cause complete chaos in which the passport holder will be stuck in the position of victim.  It is only useful internally as a means of getting the militsia off your back or providing a legally-recognized ID here in Ukraine.

Someone else (rjm maybe?) stated that they held firm and just said they would bring the passport back to be signed and stamped on whatever day needed.  That sounds smart and if I am ever stuck like that again I intend to follow the same guidance.

Title: Re: Visa & Registration Questions - Ask Now or Forever Hold Your Peace
Post by: laryan on 18:41 03-Sep-2008
ok so my 3 months is going to expire in about a week.

i have a 5 year multi entry business visa which i got from san francisco consulate. I was under the impression this was good for me to stay here up to 5 years straight of I wanted but people have told me otherwise.

i have tried 3 times now to register in odessa with my girlfriend and each time i get a different story.  first time they said i cant get registered unless i get married here and only after 2 years of marriage (I dont think she understood the request). second time they said come back before my 90 days and they will give me a new stamp thats good for 90 days.  today I got told to go to room 10 in 44 (i forget the street name) - basically 100 feet from what I think is OVIR.  so i go to room 10 on second floor and it seems like a big boss.  he tells us its not possible to register i have to leave ukraine.  the only way i can register is if i have family here or get a letter from a employer (which I dont have here).  he also said i can only stay 90 of 180.  i thought this changed to 180 cause of WTO membership?  either way I cant register!

I've read so many different stories on the Internet and also have read on this very site people have registered.

Can someone break down where to go and what to say in Odessa? :(


Title: Re: Visa & Registration Questions - Ask Now or Forever Hold Your Peace
Post by: Claus on 19:19 03-Sep-2008
Perhaps I'm out of context, having been married to my adorable Ukrainian wife since 1999 (and living here since 2006)  ;D
However, they accepted a notarized translation (into Ukrainian, not Russian) copy of my Danish passport and just demanded to see the original once to compare the info - pretention only, as they could not read latin letters nor any of the languages printed in my passport.
And as I did and do comply to conditions (pls refer above  ;D) they issued Ukrainian Inner Passport for me, as they must - even if at the very last moment, just to scare me  ;).
And once issued, this stands for the rest of my lifetime, they say  ::)
Title: Re: Visa & Registration Questions - Ask Now or Forever Hold Your Peace
Post by: P-N on 07:28 04-Sep-2008
ok so my 3 months is going to expire in about a week.

i have a 5 year multi entry business visa which i got from san francisco consulate. I was under the impression this was good for me to stay here up to 5 years straight of I wanted but people have told me otherwise.

i have tried 3 times now to register in odessa with my girlfriend and each time i get a different story.  first time they said i cant get registered unless i get married here and only after 2 years of marriage (I dont think she understood the request). second time they said come back before my 90 days and they will give me a new stamp thats good for 90 days.  today I got told to go to room 10 in 44 (i forget the street name) - basically 100 feet from what I think is OVIR.  so i go to room 10 on second floor and it seems like a big boss.  he tells us its not possible to register i have to leave ukraine.  the only way i can register is if i have family here or get a letter from a employer (which I dont have here).  he also said i can only stay 90 of 180.  i thought this changed to 180 cause of WTO membership?  either way I cant register!

I've read so many different stories on the Internet and also have read on this very site people have registered.

Can someone break down where to go and what to say in Odessa? :(




Sent you a PM - I have another guy from the forum which needs help registering here too.  I am busy this week but may be able to assist you next week with regards to registration.  I need to confirm my contact in the OVIR in Odessa is working (and not on holiday) next week.
Title: Re: Visa & Registration Questions - Ask Now or Forever Hold Your Peace
Post by: Nina T on 08:00 04-Sep-2008

The current law states (if you are here without a visa granting an extension) you can only be here 90 days from a 180 day period.



I just wanted to clarify this. I am an EU national and am here without a work visa. Before my trip, I had been told that I can stay for 90 days within 180-day period. On Sunday, when I left Ukraine for a couple of days, I asked the immigration official at customs about it. He told me (with a reference to Ukrainian law, which he helpfully wrote down, but I don't have this piece of paper with me now) that EU nationals can stay in this country up to 180 days. 90 days is the old rule that has been changed for EU nationals. It is still in force for persons who require visas.
Title: Re: Visa & Registration Questions - Ask Now or Forever Hold Your Peace
Post by: BritKyiv on 20:50 04-Sep-2008
Just think...one day in the distant future, people in Ukraine will be able to tell you the law and it will be correct.
Maybe Ukraine will be a member of the EU on that date? But it will be far far far far off in the future :D

BUT, it will be very boring  ;D, just think about all the fun we have now trying to work things out :D :D :D :D :D

Enjot the confusion while you can  ;)
Title: Re: Visa & Registration Questions - Ask Now or Forever Hold Your Peace
Post by: EnglishMKyiv on 08:11 05-Sep-2008

Hmmm this looks a bit stranhe for me too.

I have a Ukrainian one year multiple entry business visa in my passport issued by the Ukrainian consulate in Berlin.

The consulate told me that this is valid for one year (until 29th May 2009) in my case and I can come and go as I please.

Although I am working for a Ukrainian bank my employer is officially offshore and I am officially here as a consultant. So I am not employed here I am just here on business (long term)

reading some of the above posts it would appear to suggest that I cannot in fact stay for the full year represented by Visa but only for 180 days out of a year.

Anyone else here with just a one year multuiple entry visa ... please PN me - we should compare notes.

I do not want to come back from a business trip and find I am refysed entry at the border which could theoretically happen once the 180 days of my one year visa are up... if that is the correct interpretation.

Joe
Title: Re: Visa & Registration Questions - Ask Now or Forever Hold Your Peace
Post by: rjm on 09:00 05-Sep-2008
Rest easy!!!

You have nothing to worry about if you have multi entry visa.

The thread is more about people without visas who come here for 90 days then leave then return hours or days later, it is in this area that the confusion lies.

Looks however as if its business as usual and people can continue to come and go with no problems,have not heard one story of anyone being refused re entry since the Kyiv Post story in April.

I personally have a visa and am registered but this week I encountered problems even by being 100% legal. The owner of the apartment that I am registered at was asked to go to a Police Station to explain what I am doing here in Kiev, as it turned out nothing has come of it but still an uncomfortable situation for me and the owner!


Hmmm this looks a bit stranhe for me too.

I have a Ukrainian one year multiple entry business visa in my passport issued by the Ukrainian consulate in Berlin.

The consulate told me that this is valid for one year (until 29th May 2009) in my case and I can come and go as I please.

Although I am working for a Ukrainian bank my employer is officially offshore and I am officially here as a consultant. So I am not employed here I am just here on business (long term)

reading some of the above posts it would appear to suggest that I cannot in fact stay for the full year represented by Visa but only for 180 days out of a year.

Anyone else here with just a one year multuiple entry visa ... please PN me - we should compare notes.

I do not want to come back from a business trip and find I am refysed entry at the border which could theoretically happen once the 180 days of my one year visa are up... if that is the correct interpretation.

Joe
Title: Re: Visa & Registration Questions - Ask Now or Forever Hold Your Peace
Post by: lakelander on 09:08 05-Sep-2008

rjm,

I hope what you say is correct. I also have a one year multiple entry visa which I just got last week. I've been told I still need to register but do I need to do this immediately or only after 90 days?
Title: Re: Visa & Registration Questions - Ask Now or Forever Hold Your Peace
Post by: karo on 09:12 05-Sep-2008
Just an update on our situation...we crossed the border and returned and are now re-registered.  It wasn't without problems and nervousness and all but we got it.  Now we have to figure out how to take care of it in the future.

It is hard when the powers that be don't even know what the law says, and every place you go you get a different story or a different twist to the story.  If they don't know what it says, how is the average person supposed to know what to do?  Just venting....


Title: Re: Visa & Registration Questions - Ask Now or Forever Hold Your Peace
Post by: rjm on 09:14 05-Sep-2008
Yes you need to register it before 90 days,about a week or so before!!!

The 180 day thing (which hasnt been imposed anyway) only applies to the 90 day visa free visitors

I would suggest if you have a multi entry you would be better served popping into Moldova for a few hours just before the 90 day period is up,this will mean you dont have to register and have to possibly endure the problems I had this week as well as the nightmare process of actually getting the elusive stamp!

The little bit of money you will need to spend to do the trip will be money well spent beleive me!!!   
Title: Re: Visa & Registration Questions - Ask Now or Forever Hold Your Peace
Post by: rjm on 09:20 05-Sep-2008
I would suggest if anyone is nervous about their situation I would advise them to use only land borders, the only people that I have ever heard being fined for registration issues etc have been at Boryspol.

I would also like to add that I have only encountered problems in Ukraine when being 100% legal and registered at OVIR, people who seem to never have visas or registration and just do border runs seem to have a lot less hassle, such is the enigma of Ukraine  ??? ??? ???

Just an update on our situation...we crossed the border and returned and are now re-registered.  It wasn't without problems and nervousness and all but we got it.  Now we have to figure out how to take care of it in the future.

It is hard when the powers that be don't even know what the law says, and every place you go you get a different story or a different twist to the story.  If they don't know what it says, how is the average person supposed to know what to do?  Just venting....



Title: Re: Visa & Registration Questions - Ask Now or Forever Hold Your Peace
Post by: BritKyiv on 16:45 05-Sep-2008
Ok, but lets just make a nice and clear for new people:

1. If you come without a visa (Only WTO countries) you can stay without doing anything for 90 days.
   (According to the law you should only be in Ukraine for 180 days of each year, but no one is enforcing the law it would appear)

2. If you have a visa and travel in and out of Ukraine within a 90 day period you do not have to register with the OVIR

3. If you have a visa and you stay in Ukraine, you MUST register at the OVIR before the end of the first 90 day period.
Title: Re: Visa & Registration Questions - Ask Now or Forever Hold Your Peace
Post by: Sweeper5150 on 16:18 10-Sep-2008
I hate to disagree but what was said here is absolutely wrong.  I was at the Kyiv central OVIR which is the only place in Kyiv where Foreigners (US) can register on Monday.  I have a 1 year multiple entry visa and they refused to register me until I had been in the country for 180 days.  My bank on the other hand is telling me that I have to have registration for them.  Absolute catch 22.  I am lucky in that I will be getting my permanent resident in the next few months.  But OVIR does not have to follow the laws of other ministries.  Of course the one woman in charge of this for all of Kyiv does not speak English.
Title: Re: Visa & Registration Questions - Ask Now or Forever Hold Your Peace
Post by: rjm on 17:31 10-Sep-2008
Sorry but I am afraid that the info that myself and Brit Kyiv passed on is NOT wrong, I am well connected at OVIR and it is 100% 90 days, anyone that has registered after 90 days has been fined 340gr, this is a standard fine (I received it also), this has been one of the most repeated topics in the last 6 months on here and everyone has said the same thing

I have a feeling I know this notorious woman you are refering to and why she told you 180 days is anyones guess but its not the 1st time they have given obvious wrong information to people (god knows why they do this)

The official line is you should turn up with your documents about 83 days into your stay.

I am really sorry they have mislead you but if you register after 90 days a massive headache and court desicion will lay ahead, I would go back there tomorrow with a Russian speaking person if I was you and insist that you want registering!

The only way I can see that you are correct is if they have YET again changed the regulations without notifying anyone or any foreign organisations, embassies etc


I hate to disagree but what was said here is absolutely wrong.  I was at the Kyiv central OVIR which is the only place in Kyiv where Foreigners (US) can register on Monday.  I have a 1 year multiple entry visa and they refused to register me until I had been in the country for 180 days.  My bank on the other hand is telling me that I have to have registration for them.  Absolute catch 22.  I am lucky in that I will be getting my permanent resident in the next few months.  But OVIR does not have to follow the laws of other ministries.  Of course the one woman in charge of this for all of Kyiv does not speak English.
Title: Re: Visa & Registration Questions - Ask Now or Forever Hold Your Peace
Post by: andbod on 20:09 13-Sep-2008
After registering my work permit and been granted a 1 year living permit in Ukraine I used some connections to get to the head of local OVIR. It turned out that after getting a work permit it is possible to apply for a permanent resident status by giving support (also a small economical one) to a disabled ukrainian person.
I'm still unsure on what to do. Do someone know what are the pros and cons between being temporary or permanent residents ? For sure a big pro will be that I won't need anymore to apply for a Visa and Work permit.
If someone is interested I can post law number and required document list.
Title: Re: Visa & Registration Questions - Ask Now or Forever Hold Your Peace
Post by: P-N on 08:14 14-Sep-2008
After registering my work permit and been granted a 1 year living permit in Ukraine I used some connections to get to the head of local OVIR. It turned out that after getting a work permit it is possible to apply for a permanent resident status by giving support (also a small economical one) to a disabled ukrainian person.
I'm still unsure on what to do. Do someone know what are the pros and cons between being temporary or permanent residents ? For sure a big pro will be that I won't need anymore to apply for a Visa and Work permit.
If someone is interested I can post law number and required document list.

I have my Permanent Residency Andbod, but post it up anyway as the more information the better, particularly if supported by the legislative number.
Title: Re: Visa & Registration Questions - Ask Now or Forever Hold Your Peace
Post by: andbod on 19:31 14-Sep-2008
The law is "Ukrainian Law on Immigration of 2001 of 05 April 2001" :

http://www.ecoi.net/file_upload/168778_en.html

The relevant article is n. 4) :
2) individuals being guardians or trustees of citizens of Ukraine or those being under guardianship or trusteeship of citizens of Ukraine;

Documents required :

      1) eight photographs 3,5x4,5cm;

      2) a copy of the personal identification document;

      3) a document stating the place of residence of the applicant;

      4) notarized copy of family certificate and/or a notarized copy of the marriage certificate (if the applicant is married);

      5) a document confirming that the applicant does not suffer from HIV or tuberculosis;

      6) copies of documents confirming the appointment of individuals as guardians or trustees of citizens of Ukraine or their being under the guardianship or trusteeship on the part of a citizen of Ukraine (a notarized document from the Ukrainian citizen);

      7) autobiography;

      8 ) applicant passport copy;

      9) notarized copy of applicant birth certificate;

      10) certificate showing the in the country of origin the applicant has not convicted of any crime;

      11) payment of OVIR fees
Title: Re: Visa & Registration Questions - Ask Now or Forever Hold Your Peace
Post by: BritKyiv on 15:49 18-Oct-2008
I had a small party on Friday night to celebrate getting my one year temporary residents permit.
A stamp in my passport to show I have a work permit and a flimsy card to show I have residency here, plus I can use any queue at the airport arrivals. Not much really, but then I also dont have to complete one of those immigration cards every time I come back in the country.

Next objective: Permanent Residency.

Maybe I will ask the DAI to give me a reference?  :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

Being 100% legal in this country is HARD work and VERY expensive both in time and money.
I always ask local lawyers to do all this stuff now. I can recommend if anyone is interested or wants help.
Title: Re: Visa & Registration Questions - Ask Now or Forever Hold Your Peace
Post by: matlockk on 17:02 18-Oct-2008
plus I can use any queue at the airport arrivals. Not much really, but then I also dont have to complete one of those immigration cards every time I come back in the country.


You sure GB? I tried the Ukraine line waiving my card and they sent me into the other queue. I also still fill the form in.
Title: Re: Visa & Registration Questions - Ask Now or Forever Hold Your Peace
Post by: Green Borsch on 17:30 18-Oct-2008
Out of interest, what is the wisdom in spending lots of money for a temporary residence permit!

I toyed with the idea a few years back of getting residence but after much thought could see no point after all the hoops you have to jump through and more importantly all the expense and bureacracy you have to endure.

A long term multi-entry visa makes far more sense to me and Ive stuck to that method ever since!

I also cant see any tangible benefits in permanent residency, after all this is Ukraine!!!!!!!!!

 
Title: Re: Visa & Registration Questions - Ask Now or Forever Hold Your Peace
Post by: BritKyiv on 18:06 18-Oct-2008
Out of interest, what is the wisdom in spending lots of money for a temporary residence permit!

I toyed with the idea a few years back of getting residence but after much thought could see no point after all the hoops you have to jump through and more importantly all the expense and bureacracy you have to endure.

A long term multi-entry visa makes far more sense to me and Ive stuck to that method ever since!

I also cant see any tangible benefits in permanent residency, after all this is Ukraine!!!!!!!!!

 

Maybe because you are not aware of the law?
I too used a multi entry business visa for many years and also had no problems.
I have also had a work permit for many years. I am also registered as a Private Entrepeneur (In another business)
If you are to work here (Not a business 'consultant" or temporary teacher/worker avoiding taxes), you must by law have a work permit. You should also obtain an IM 1 Visa which is a single entry visa. This single entry allows you time to obtain a residents permit during the time of your work permit. After obtaining the permit you should also register with the Zhek to ensure your place of residence is recorded.
There are many advantages to both temporary and permanent residency. Banking transactions is one of them. Dealing in cash transactions at a bank has its restrictions when you are a NON resident.
Plus having residency means you do not have to worry about having to register with the OVIR, you are already registered as a resident.
We all know there are many expats living and working here who are NOT legal and, yes this is Ukraine!!!
Some of us cannot afford to be on the wrong side of the law when it comes to serious issues like these.

Oh and finally some of us have decided to STAY here so getting residency is important, when you have invested in buying property and other assets. But then I'm just a simple Brit trying to do things correctly and earn a crust at the same time.  ;D
Title: Re: Visa & Registration Questions - Ask Now or Forever Hold Your Peace
Post by: matlockk on 18:07 18-Oct-2008
Out of interest, what is the wisdom in spending lots of money for a temporary residence permit!

I toyed with the idea a few years back of getting residence but after much thought could see no point after all the hoops you have to jump through and more importantly all the expense and bureacracy you have to endure.

A long term multi-entry visa makes far more sense to me and Ive stuck to that method ever since!

I also cant see any tangible benefits in permanent residency, after all this is Ukraine!!!!!!!!!

 

As`far as I know a M/E visa only allows you to stay 90/180. The temp residence goes hand in hand with the IM-1 visa(which is single entry) and work permit. Mine is coming up for renewal. Benefit is I don't have to go back to the Uk to get another visa, I just extend the residency.
Title: Re: Visa & Registration Questions - Ask Now or Forever Hold Your Peace
Post by: Green Borsch on 18:37 18-Oct-2008
Its the said contact with organusations like ZHEK and OVIR that made me draw up my own conclusion.

Yes if you want to play things directly by the board I respect what you are saying 100%, for the record I do know the law but as Ive lived in Ukraine so long I just find that obeying laws and bureacracy gets you where you want to be much slower and with much emptier pockets!

Just to clear up your point Matlock a Business visa in Ukr does not work in the same way as in Russia, you can stay here for the duration of the visa.
 
Title: Re: Visa & Registration Questions - Ask Now or Forever Hold Your Peace
Post by: rambo on 07:57 19-Oct-2008
I would be very grateful if people with multi-entry business visas could help me with a few questions:

1. What type of work/business are you allowed to engage in with such a visa? For example, if you want to buy an apartment and rent it out, would this visa be sufficient or would you need additional permits?

2. Can you stay in Ukraine continuously up to the duration of the visa or do you need to leave after 90 days and stay out for a further 90 days as in Russia? I have a feeling the former is the case.

3. Do you need to go to the OVIR office to register every time you visit only if you are staying for more than 90 days?

I apologize if any of these questions have been answered previously and hang my head in shame if such is the case!  :)
Title: Re: Visa & Registration Questions - Ask Now or Forever Hold Your Peace
Post by: Phasar on 09:40 19-Oct-2008
I would be very grateful if people with multi-entry business visas could help me with a few questions:

1. What type of work/business are you allowed to engage in with such a visa? For example, if you want to buy an apartment and rent it out, would this visa be sufficient or would you need additional permits?

2. Can you stay in Ukraine continuously up to the duration of the visa or do you need to leave after 90 days and stay out for a further 90 days as in Russia? I have a feeling the former is the case.

3. Do you need to go to the OVIR office to register every time you visit only if you are staying for more than 90 days?

I apologize if any of these questions have been answered previously and hang my head in shame if such is the case!  :)

Question 1 I don't know.

Question 2, they now have the 90/180 rule but it's not being strictly enforced yet. Minimum fine is 320 UAH, Maximum fine is 680 UAH

Question 3 the answer is Yes, and they are enforcing this and the fines, same fines as above
Title: Re: Visa & Registration Questions - Ask Now or Forever Hold Your Peace
Post by: P-N on 09:55 19-Oct-2008
In response to question 1 only, a foreigner can buy non-agricultural land and property (domestic,commercial or industrial) without any visa as long as you are in the country legally.  You will need a Ukrainian tax code issued from the Tax Police to accomplish any purchase, together with your passport.

As for needing a business visa to rent such property, that would be a "theoretical" issue, probably best answered by some of the legal minds on this forum (of which there are several lawyers on here, although they tend not to advertise the fact).  It may be that a PE visa, business visa or no visa would be advised.  Other than a lease agreement between tenant and landlord and proof of ownership by the landlord to the tenant, there is no other associated documentation required for you to lease any property that you own (and officially report your earning from it to the tax police).

In practice (not necessarily lawfully) hardly any property owner who rents an apartment or two, declares the fact to the tax police which is why so many foreigners cannot get the necessary registrations from the OVIR/Zhek as the landlord must register them at the property........with possible tax implications if they were ever investigated.

There are many regulars on here who own land and/or property or both, myself included. 
Title: Re: Visa & Registration Questions - Ask Now or Forever Hold Your Peace
Post by: matlockk on 10:07 19-Oct-2008
After a year of being semi legal we made all our expats fully legal a year ago- visas, registration, residency, the lot. Not one of our landlords objected to the registration, which suprised me.
Title: Re: Visa & Registration Questions - Ask Now or Forever Hold Your Peace
Post by: rambo on 10:48 19-Oct-2008
To Phasar, P-N, matlockk, and any other members who are able to contribute to this discussion: thank you very much for your contributions. They are much appreciated.

Phasar, are you pretty sure about the 90/180 day rule? The reason I ask is because I remember hearing that there was a change to the visa rules in July 2007, but I was under the impression that this change only affected those people coming to Ukraine without a visa (i.e. multiple visa free trips allowed provided the total duration did not exceed 180 days in a year and that you did not stay more than 90 days in any 180 day period). However, every time I call one of the Ukrainian consulates (e.g. in Canada, US, or UK) or look at their sites, it seems that they are under the impression that visa free travel for citizens of certain countries (such as EU, US, and UK) means any number of trips per year is OK provided that each visit does not more than 90 days, i.e. they do not seem to be aware of the changes the government announced in July 2007 (reported in Kiev Post and elsewhere).

P-N, if a non-resident landlord decides to (perhaps foolishly) register a property with the authorities (not sure which ones), do you know how much tax is "officially" payable (I am assuming that bribes may be necessary to troublesome officials who decide to inspect the property and to find something wrong with it) to the tax office? Is it difficult to report such income (assuming that you have a tax code)? Do you pay less tax if you register yourself as a  "private entrepreneur"?

Sorry for asking so many questions, but if I manage to collect sufficient material relating to property ownership in Ukraine, I would be happy to produce a FAQ document/post.

And thanks again in advance for all your comments.
Title: Re: Visa & Registration Questions - Ask Now or Forever Hold Your Peace
Post by: Phasar on 10:53 19-Oct-2008
The 90/180 rule became law and was supposed to be enforced starting 16 May 2008.

However, from what I hear, the only place that seems to be enforcing the fines is Boryspol Airport.

I'm going to Kishinev in a few days. I have a visa, but I'm over 90 days and not registered, so I'll let everyone know what they say at the border when I get back Thursday
Title: Re: Visa & Registration Questions - Ask Now or Forever Hold Your Peace
Post by: rambo on 11:00 19-Oct-2008
Phasar, do you happen to have any links to this 90/180 rule?

And good luck at Kiev airport (upon your return to Ukraine on Thursday). Hopefully, you won't have any problems.
Title: Re: Visa & Registration Questions - Ask Now or Forever Hold Your Peace
Post by: P-N on 11:00 19-Oct-2008
With the limited knowledge I have, I would think you would be better with as a Private Entrepreneur and pay the "Yediniy Nalog" tax system (applicable to only PE status) of 250UAH every 3 months which is a set rate regardless of if your income is $100,000 or $10.00.

Business tax is banded payable every 6 months and is banded as to income.

Again, the lawyers on the site will probably be able to answer this question in a far better and definitive way than I have.
Title: Re: Visa & Registration Questions - Ask Now or Forever Hold Your Peace
Post by: Phasar on 11:03 19-Oct-2008
Phasar, do you happen to have any links to this 90/180 rule?

And good luck at Kiev airport (upon your return to Ukraine on Thursday). Hopefully, you won't have any problems.

It was in the Kiev Post back in May. Unless you're a subscriber you can't read old articles. It may be posted here in it's entirety, but you'll have to search.

As for Kishinev, I'm in Odessa so I take a 3 hour bus ride. I don't fly and therefore don't have to go through Boryspol ;)
Title: Re: Visa & Registration Questions - Ask Now or Forever Hold Your Peace
Post by: rambo on 11:19 19-Oct-2008
Phasar, if the 90/180 day rule you are referring to is the one mentioned in Kiev Post (http://www.kyivpost.com/nation/27353/), does this not only affect those people who are travelling to Ukraine without a visa?

Title: Re: Visa & Registration Questions - Ask Now or Forever Hold Your Peace
Post by: Phasar on 11:38 19-Oct-2008
yes, the 90/180 rule affects people who are travelling here without a visa.

However the 90 day rule applies to registration at OVIR even if you have a visa.

That rule is being enforced and you will get fined if you are over. When I was talking about Boryspol I was talking about both laws. If you stay over 90/180 you get fined and if you stay over 90 without registration you get fined
Title: Re: Visa & Registration Questions - Ask Now or Forever Hold Your Peace
Post by: Phasar on 02:05 23-Oct-2008
The 90/180 rule became law and was supposed to be enforced starting 16 May 2008.

However, from what I hear, the only place that seems to be enforcing the fines is Boryspol Airport.

I'm going to Kishinev in a few days. I have a visa, but I'm over 90 days and not registered, so I'll let everyone know what they say at the border when I get back Thursday

Just got back.

The border guys didn't even blink, so I wasn't fined.  ;D

Didn't get my new visa either though. The company screwed up the paperwork so bad they have to start from scratch and I'll have to make another trip  ::) >:(
Title: Re: Visa & Registration Questions - Ask Now or Forever Hold Your Peace
Post by: tjtag on 11:36 21-Jan-2009
Hello All,

I have a question that I need some help with.

First some background:

I have a Private 5 year multi entry Visa, no problems there. My Wife "A Ukrainian Citizen" and I were married in the U.S., so our Marriage license is notarized by the court in Maryland.

I did register soon after I arrived and also obtained a tax id. I remember when we purchased a property here in Odessa, that I needed to obtain a translator, to explain to me in English what the contract said. about our loan, The bank did include me in our loan agreement and recognized me as the Husband of my wife "With Exceptions".

Because our marriage license was from the U.S. and did not have a Epistle, it was not recognized as legal.

I would however like to apply for and receive Permanent Residence, so my question is this:

What is necessary, to obtain a  "Epistle" for our marriage license while living in Ukraine "if  possible at all", or will it be necessary to have the document returned to the U.S. for this to happen ?

Any information in this regard is of course Apr.


Title: Re: Visa & Registration Questions - Ask Now or Forever Hold Your Peace
Post by: Carlusha on 17:04 21-Jan-2009
Hi

I'm not sure what is meant by "epistle" - believe you mean "apostille".

We required -

In order to apply for permanent residence in Ukraine the following documents should be submitted:

    * written request (duly signed and dated) with formal declaration of intentions to apply for permanent
       residence in Ukraine (explaining reasons and indicating whether the applicant will be seeking financial
       assistance after being lawfully admitted for permanent residence);
    * completed application form in Ukrainian;
    * copy of the document confirming identity;
    * three recent passport sized photographs;
    * document confirming the place of residence;
    * information on family members, a copy of marriage certificate (if applicant is married);
    * police reply under the subject access provisions of the Data Protection Act 1998;
    * medical report certifying that applicant does not suffer from the infectious diseases, drug, toxic or
       alcohol addiction.

I believe, others will correct me if wrong, your marriage certificate should have a translation attached to it which requires to be "legalised" - that is, certified as being correct.

This is where the confusion arises. You should find similar information on the Ukrainian Embassy site in US where you're from.

Below is the current definition from my Ukrainian Embassy in UK.

LEGALISATION OF UK DOCUMENTS DESTINED FOR USE IN UKRAINE

On 22 December 2003 Ukraine acceded the Hague Conventionof 5 October 1961 Abolishing the Requirement of Legalization for Foreign Public Documents. The Convention provides for the simplified certification of public (including notarized) documents by means of an Apostille (certificate) to be used in countries that have joined the convention.

Ukraine's accession means that the "authentication chain" will no longer be required. Instead, UK documents destined for use in Ukraine (and Ukrainian documents to be used in the UK) should be certified by one of the officials in the jurisdiction in which the document has been executed.

Once a document has been notarised by a Notary public it needs to be apostilled. This means that the Notary's signature and seal are certified by the Foreign and Commonwealth Office. The Foreign and Commonwealth Office will then attach an Apostille to the document.

The Legalisation Office
Norfolk House (West),
237 Silbury
Milton Keynes

 

With this certification by the Hague Convention Apostille, the document is entitled to recognition in Ukraine, and no legalization by the Consular/Visa Section of the Embassy of Ukraine is required (except the documents from Germany and Belgium).

Please note that all official documents, which were legalized through the regular Ukrainian or UK authentication chains before 22 December 2003 will remain valid and should be accepted by all Ukrainian and British agencies.


THE CONSULAR/VISA SECTION RESERVES THE RIGHT TO REQUEST ANY ADDITIONAL INFORMATION AS AND WHEN NECESSARY. ALL THE ABOVE MENTIONED CONDITIONS ARE SUBJECT TO CHANGE WITHOUT PRIOR NOTIFICATION.


I organised permanent residency from within Ukraine as well but I still had to return to UK to have our marriage certificate "legalised" and obtain the police checks.

Others may have similar or, because this is Ukraine, quite different experiences.
Title: Re: Visa & Registration Questions - Ask Now or Forever Hold Your Peace
Post by: tjtag on 17:38 21-Jan-2009
Carlushika,

Yes, I did mean apostille..

Thank you for your post and attempt to provide information, I have read the same legalization of documents requirements on the Ukrainian Embassy site located in the U.S.

It was not really planned at that time, so I was searching for another way to achieve the same end, in this day and age, it just seems so unlikely, that one would have to return to the U,S. to goto a Ukrainian Consulate, to legalize a document.

It may be the only way, I will have to do a little more research.

Once again, thank you for your reply


Title: Re: Visa & Registration Questions - Ask Now or Forever Hold Your Peace
Post by: Carlusha on 17:48 21-Jan-2009
The way to start is your local OVIR (or whatever they are called these days).

As I said, in our case we did practically everything here in Ukraine. I was told by the then OVIR that I would have to present that document to the embassy in London.

Let's see how the others report their experiences.

I do hope everything sorts itself out for you both.
Title: Re: Visa & Registration Questions - Ask Now or Forever Hold Your Peace
Post by: Daniel on 20:10 21-Jan-2009
Tjtag, I'll try to sort out within tomorrow whether there is any legal possibility to have the apostille not leaving Ukraine. At the same time, are you aware of the fact that, according to the law, you should be married with the Ukrainian citizen during 2 years prior you would be able to apply for the Ukrainian permanent residence (based on marriage)?
Title: Re: Visa & Registration Questions - Ask Now or Forever Hold Your Peace
Post by: P-N on 20:49 21-Jan-2009
When I needed the UK apostile stamp (nothing to do with marriage on this occasion) I had to get the documents to London (I believe it has since move to Milton Keynes).  Rather than go, I sent it via DHL and paid an extra fee for the return to be signed for at my local Odessa Post Office.  (The UK will not return by currier).  It took a total of 2 weeks.  It also then, of course, had to be translated into Ukrainian and notarised.

I would also, having been through the process of getting PR status myself, advise you that it can also take some time (unless you grease the wheels) as it involves local (in your case USA........they said but I don't believe) and Interpol police checks as well as police checks in Ukraine.  The Interpol (and your national checks if true) are faxed there and faxed back (no other way apparantly) and therefore you can expect administrative delays whilst your Interpol and national checks sit in a tray gathering dust unless the wheels have been "greased" for a more timely administrative process.

The documentation required to get PR status though is minimal, as far as what you have to provide - (copies of your wife's and your own passports and marriage certificate and that is it - together with one passport style photo of yourself)........and as Daniel rightly states, you have to have a marriage of 2 years (to the day) or more. 

Just thought you should know  :D :D :D :D :D
Title: Re: Visa & Registration Questions - Ask Now or Forever Hold Your Peace
Post by: tjtag on 07:24 22-Jan-2009
@Daniel

Yes, We have been married almost 5 years now, it's been great :) only the road is a little tough at times, the RED tape is what I'm speaking about. I would like to apply for the Permanent Resident Status based on the marriage, but I need to get the U.S. marriage certificate legalized first, that is what I'm concentrating my energy and research on now.

@P-N.

Thank you for your advise ans concurrence, Living here for almost 5 years, I understand you completely, the wheels will be very well greased, although I'm not sure my contacts could rival your :)

While I'm posting this on the forum, and a little off topic, do you guys ever get together for Dinner, drinks etc, on a regular basis ? If so where do you go ? and if not, I would surely like to meet some of you, can we meet sometime in the near future ?
Title: Re: Visa & Registration Questions - Ask Now or Forever Hold Your Peace
Post by: Carlusha on 08:52 22-Jan-2009

While I'm posting this on the forum, and a little off topic, do you guys ever get together for Dinner, drinks etc, on a regular basis ? If so where do you go ? and if not, I would surely like to meet some of you, can we meet sometime in the near future ?

We're off very shortly and not due back for some months. I enjoy meeting the others socially now and again as long as it is the centre as I do not drive while here in Odessa.

When we return, I will look you up if you don't mind meeting with the oldest member of the good ship expatua. Maybe we can organise something then with the others. While we're away, should you go ahead, do enjoy yourself for those I've met are ALL very, very nice guys and all gentlemen!

Title: Re: Visa & Registration Questions - Ask Now or Forever Hold Your Peace
Post by: tjtag on 10:50 22-Jan-2009
@Carlushika,

Most certainly, look me up when you get back !!

Regards,
Title: Re: Visa & Registration Questions - Ask Now or Forever Hold Your Peace
Post by: EnglishMKyiv on 19:32 04-Feb-2009
Simple question this one...

I have a multi entry business visa and need to register with OVIR by 19th February.

The owner of my appartment cannot/will not give me an official contract - so I cannot register ... how can I overcome this?

Joe



Title: Re: Visa & Registration Questions - Ask Now or Forever Hold Your Peace
Post by: richardm on 19:46 04-Feb-2009
The only way is that you need to find someone else who would be willing to say that you live in their apartment, but as we all know that is a tough ask as locals dont want to declare this stuff.

If you have a multi entry visa its far easier to do a border run before the date you mention, that will keep you right for another 90 days, a far easier option in my book, also gets you out of Kiev for a weekend which is always a godsend and chance to recharge the batteries.
Title: Re: Visa & Registration Questions - Ask Now or Forever Hold Your Peace
Post by: EnglishMKyiv on 20:30 04-Feb-2009
Border run is not possible this time ... too busy.

I guess I will have to pay the fine next time I leave on a business trip.... as long as they let me in again next time I return.

Joe
Title: Re: Visa & Registration Questions - Ask Now or Forever Hold Your Peace
Post by: rigi on 11:20 05-Feb-2009
Hi Everyone

got a small question does all those documents need to be legalised

We required -

In order to apply for permanent residence in Ukraine the following documents should be submitted:

    * written request (duly signed and dated) with formal declaration of intentions to apply for permanent
       residence in Ukraine (explaining reasons and indicating whether the applicant will be seeking financial
       assistance after being lawfully admitted for permanent residence);
    * completed application form in Ukrainian;
    * copy of the document confirming identity;
    * three recent passport sized photographs;
    * document confirming the place of residence;
    * information on family members, a copy of marriage certificate (if applicant is married);
    * police reply under the subject access provisions of the Data Protection Act 1998;
    * medical report certifying that applicant does not suffer from the infectious diseases, drug, toxic or
       alcohol addiction.
Title: Re: Visa & Registration Questions - Ask Now or Forever Hold Your Peace
Post by: Daniel on 20:11 09-Feb-2009
Only your marriage certificate and the certificate on absence of previous convictions in your home country should be legalised.