Expat Ukraine Forum

Expatriate Life => Q&A => Topic started by: BritKyiv on 21:12 16-Aug-2008

Title: Beware of UK Visas Ofice in Kyiv
Post by: BritKyiv on 21:12 16-Aug-2008
Suprise suprise the UK government has passed the processing of UK Visas to another private 'commercial' organisation for granting visas to Ukrainians wanting to visit the UK.

Warning: Anyone wanting to obtain a visa for their spouse/girlfriend/boyfreind etc, then expect problems now.

Believe me, we experienced the introduction of many new 'hurdles' recently. They employ people who have NO IDEA what goes on in the real world.

They now have the cheek to ask people for feedback on their new web site concerning their service level.
See:http://www.ukvac-ua.com/index.aspx

VFS Global is a commercial company, working in partnership with UKvisas and the British Embassy here in Ukraine providing services to help people apply for UKvisas.

My wife recently obtained a visa for the UK, but not without frustrations. After submitting ALL the required documents, the ******* who work there (as described by my wife), still demanded photographic 'evidence' that we are married. So my wife had to return back home again and collect required 'evidence'.
(she was not amused!!).

So please be warned the people employed by VFS will treat visa applicants like ****.

Please feel free to visit their web site and add some comments.

Title: Re: Beware of UK Visas Ofice in Kyiv
Post by: SteveH on 21:19 16-Aug-2008
 I Could Understand this,if it was was a Single Woman/Fiance`,but Not a Married Couple,these Clowns Employed,were Kicked into touch last Year my Most British Companies for Their Inadequecies.

"still demanded photographic 'evidence' that we are married.
So my wife had to return back home again and collect required 'evidence'."
Title: Re: Beware of UK Visas Ofice in Kyiv
Post by: Carlusha on 22:30 16-Aug-2008
P***s! Unbelievable. This change must have been introduced on the say so of some pathetic jobsworth employed by the government. A real step backwards but then, the current government makes it a habit whatever they do.
Title: Re: Beware of UK Visas Ofice in Kyiv
Post by: P-N on 06:45 17-Aug-2008
Good to see a photograph is seen as more evidence than stamps in both passports and wedding certificate - obviously nobody would have photographs taken as part of an attempted con.  Too difficult to take photographs compared to all those faked stamps and certificates which are so easily obtained.   ::) ::) ::)

Guess those who got married in 5 minutes at the Zak, no fuss, without photographic evidence have a problem then.

I think I will find a copy of the complete EU Court ruling regarding the free movement of spouces married to EU citizens - if Anechka's is turned down I will happily spend A LOT of money taking these people to the EU courts.  >:( >:( >:(



Title: Re: Beware of UK Visas Ofice in Kyiv
Post by: ecocks on 11:38 17-Aug-2008
Ugh! I shudder to think what will be the result if the US Consulate outsources this procedure. 

 
Title: Re: Beware of UK Visas Ofice in Kyiv
Post by: rjm on 11:42 17-Aug-2008
I find this all very depressing, particularly when you look at the almost open door policy that our country has for people from parts of Asia and Africa who have no connection to the country or even a British citizen.

Sadly this is nothing new, I had a nightmare experience at our embassy in Moscow 6 years ago when they practically told me they would not even look at my former spouses application.

Their inability to see an obvious concrete case in front of them is quite frightening and the whole process needs an overhaulin my book.

Our embassy needs a massive kick up the behind on so many issues.I cant even begin to start on my personal bad experiences with them.

I think someone in our Government needs a stiff letter or two!!!

 
Title: Re: Beware of UK Visas Ofice in Kyiv
Post by: P-N on 12:35 17-Aug-2008
I find this all very depressing, particularly when you look at the almost open door policy that our country has for people from parts of Asia and Africa who have no connection to the country or even a British citizen.

Sadly this is nothing new, I had a nightmare experience at our embassy in Moscow 6 years ago when they practically told me they would not even look at my former spouses application.

Their inability to see an obvious concrete case in front of them is quite frightening and the whole process needs an overhaulin my book.

Our embassy needs a massive kick up the behind on so many issues.I cant even begin to start on my personal bad experiences with them.

I think someone in our Government needs a stiff letter or two!!!

 

Two have been sent from me in the last month (with no response I will add).  Feel free to add to the "complaints department" incoming mail though:

UK Visa Application Centre
5/24 Irininskaya Street, Office 90
Kyiv 01034
Ukraine

Of course actually finding a postal address for a "Complaints Department" in the FCO in London is a different matter.  Finding a postal address for the "Boy Blunder" that is David Miliband is also not so easy unless you want to try "pot luck" and address it to Westminster Palace itself.
Title: Re: Beware of UK Visas Ofice in Kyiv
Post by: Moving on 12:53 17-Aug-2008
BritKyiv, what kind of photo evidences did you have to provide? just curious...

RJM, the question of African and Asians is another issue. I think most of them enter the UK (and the rest of EU) presenting other reasons such as claiming refugee status or asking to join relatives who already reside there. Also some Asians may apply for working visa, either as qualified workers (true for some EU countries) or menial workers.

Here for partners of CIS/Russian spouses/fiancees, usually Italian invite them to Italy as if their partners where cleaning ladies/санитаркы/etc... They find it much easier than going the legal way.
Title: Re: Beware of UK Visas Ofice in Kyiv
Post by: P-N on 13:19 17-Aug-2008
BritKyiv, what kind of photo evidences did you have to provide? just curious...


It is still an ancient requirement in UK law, that the marriage be "consumated".  Short of making "Mrs BK" pregnant just to get a visa or providing photographs "not fit for viewing by persons under the age of 18" a wedding photograph genuine or fake still does not prove "marriage" as per the law either.

Quite what a wedding photograph proves is beyond me (it is the easiest thing to fake after all), other than an unnecessary invasion of privacy.

Having pointed this out now, if one of these "individuals" actually reads this (please note I used the word "individuals" as Anechka's application is still to be submitted - if not I would have used words like w***ers, t**sers, numb-n**s, pr**ks, a**eholes etc etc) I wonder what pictures they would now want to see  :o :o :o :o :o
Title: Re: Beware of UK Visas Ofice in Kyiv
Post by: Carlusha on 14:34 17-Aug-2008
BritKyiv, what kind of photo evidences did you have to provide? just curious...


It is still an ancient requirement in UK law, that the marriage be "consumated".  Short of making "Mrs BK" pregnant just to get a visa or providing photographs "not fit for viewing by persons under the age of 18" a wedding photograph genuine or fake still does not prove "marriage" as per the law either.

Quite what a wedding photograph proves is beyond me (it is the easiest thing to fake after all), other than an unnecessary invasion of privacy.

Having pointed this out now, if one of these "individuals" actually reads this (please note I used the word "individuals" as Anechka's application is still to be submitted - if not I would have used words like w***ers, t**sers, numb-n**s, pr**ks, a**eholes etc etc) I wonder what pictures they would now want to see  :o :o :o :o :o

Mind you, we are talking years ago when the visa section of the UK embassy used goose feather quill pens ........ in our case we were simply requested to submit photograpghs to show "togetherness". At the time, Photoshop  was in its infancy and digital cameras had yet to be invented so we were only able to provide real photographs. However, that said, we attended together and Irinusha mentioned during her interview that I was outside in the waiting room. Once the interviewer knew this, Irina was asked to go outside and I was invited in and asked a few silly puerile questions.

We got the visa.



Title: Re: Beware of UK Visas Ofice in Kyiv
Post by: P-N on 15:32 17-Aug-2008
I will obviously be there when her interview takes place (I mean outside - the UK visa forms dictate the interview is alone and not accompanied.....just in case the UK citizen knows more about visa rules and EU rulings than they do no doubt  ::))  I am sure a British husband being physically present and able to swear on oath (if necessary) will not count as much as a photograph  ::) >:( :o


Still, if there were any Labour Party proxy voters left in Ukraine ( :o :o ) who are married, this will be another vote winner for them  ::) :D :D :D 
Title: Re: Beware of UK Visas Ofice in Kyiv
Post by: free spirit on 16:46 17-Aug-2008
These visa companies are being used in many places by the UK embassy. There is a similar private company that now runs UK visas in Thailand, and one in China etc. This is now more or less standard - and the price has gone up to account for the private company's fees. Whether the use of private companies to perform a government job should be legal is another question - the information you provide to these people is private and confidential and should not be provided to a private company. That someone sitting in a private company with one hand on his **** should be able to take the decision to introduce new hurdles is a disgrace... I am reminded of the UK I left in December 2005 of private car clamping companies allowed to charge whatever they like etc. Any surprise I don't want to go back to that country? Oh, yes, don't get me started - the Royal Mail decided recently to stop deliveries to one village because it is up a hill. One local authority has fined a disabled person for displaying his/her disabled parking  badge upside down. And another area refuses to take rubbish away if the bin does not pass a "two finger" test - if the bin cannot be pulled with two fingers it is too heavy! This visa office thing is just another manifestation of a cultural problem in the UK. Little Hitlers in minor government offices are being supplemented by contracting out to private companies with no controls on their behaviour, all supported by large cohorts of people employed in the "racism" and "health and safety" industries... Welcome to Britain!
Title: Re: Beware of UK Visas Ofice in Kyiv
Post by: P-N on 16:59 17-Aug-2008
We should be thankfull it has not been outsourced to India like everything else but then it would also be impossible to get a visa to go there........................... to get a visa application submitted and laterly an interview.  That would be madness...................therefore likely very soon under Gordon Clown  ::) ::) ::) ::)
Title: Re: Beware of UK Visas Ofice in Kyiv
Post by: BritKyiv on 19:50 17-Aug-2008
BritKyiv, what kind of photo evidences did you have to provide? just curious...

We also got married at the registery without photos but we had a big party afterwards with many photos.
We had many guests including the British Defence attache and his wife, so we gave UK Visas a photo of all four of us at OUR wedding. (Well they work for the British Embassy) My wife was tempted to say.."What more ******* evidence do you want?, but she remained diplomatic (so she tells me!)

Its great being a Brit  ;D

Back to Ukraine tomorrow and will provide feedback report on trip to the UK
Title: Re: Beware of UK Visas Ofice in Kyiv
Post by: rjm on 22:42 17-Aug-2008
Yes you are correct but its the sheer weight of numbers that is frightening!! also 100s of fake educational establishments were formed in the UK (mainly by Nigerians) solely with the purpose of selling invites to fake English courses to Africans at a high cost, literally 10s of thousands got into the UK this way by applying for education Visas!

Having said all this your country has even bigger problems with such people, I was in Bologna 5 years ago and in 2 days was the atempted victim of pickpockets and robbers by Africans roaming about the station area.

BritKyiv, what kind of photo evidences did you have to provide? just curious...

RJM, the question of African and Asians is another issue. I think most of them enter the UK (and the rest of EU) presenting other reasons such as claiming refugee status or asking to join relatives who already reside there. Also some Asians may apply for working visa, either as qualified workers (true for some EU countries) or menial workers.

Here for partners of CIS/Russian spouses/fiancees, usually Italian invite them to Italy as if their partners where cleaning ladies/санитаркы/etc... They find it much easier than going the legal way.

Title: Re: Beware of UK Visas Ofice in Kyiv
Post by: P-N on 09:43 18-Aug-2008
I have spoken to the UK Consol in Kyiv and explained that once I nominate the date (and it is confirmed by them as acceptable), when we come from Odessa, the documents are submitted and Anechka will recieve her visa that day (after interview that day).......no need to re-attend later for an interview as we are coming from Odessa.

If we were from Kyiv the process would be a "staggered" process over a period of days/week.  ??? :o

I was assured there would be no problem in getting the visa despite the fact I stated I would NOT be bringing wedding photographs to support the certifcates, stamps in passports etc.  Just the documents required as laid down by the Visa Applications.  ;)

Apparantly they are not allowed to give out their names (good to see customer service even in the Consol is below standard), so therefore there is no way to confirm what has been said when someone else there will no doubt say different to what I was told.  ::)

I therefore called back and got someone different and said I had been talking to a "chap" who had been most helpfull but forgot to ask a question.  I was then told I would be put back through to "Bogdan"......that will narrow it down somewhat - Bogdan is an old Russian name which is not that popular so not much chance of there being too many in the Consol.

So much for not giving out names  ;) :D :D :D :D :D





Title: Re: Beware of UK Visas Ofice in Kyiv
Post by: Moving on 13:42 18-Aug-2008
Yes you are correct but its the sheer weight of numbers that is frightening!! also 100s of fake educational establishments were formed in the UK (mainly by Nigerians) solely with the purpose of selling invites to fake English courses to Africans at a high cost, literally 10s of thousands got into the UK this way by applying for education Visas!

Having said all this your country has even bigger problems with such people, I was in Bologna 5 years ago and in 2 days was the atempted victim of pickpockets and robbers by Africans roaming about the station area.

BritKyiv, what kind of photo evidences did you have to provide? just curious...

RJM, the question of African and Asians is another issue. I think most of them enter the UK (and the rest of EU) presenting other reasons such as claiming refugee status or asking to join relatives who already reside there. Also some Asians may apply for working visa, either as qualified workers (true for some EU countries) or menial workers.

Here for partners of CIS/Russian spouses/fiancees, usually Italian invite them to Italy as if their partners where cleaning ladies/санитаркы/etc... They find it much easier than going the legal way.


No, my countru has much less troubles with immigration than the UK. This is logic.

Pickpockets exists here but this is not an immigration problem since all you have to do it is to hold tightly your belongings.

Hopefully you do not think they are just this made-on-spot nigerian schools to invite "students".
Lots of establishments all over the UK (London on top) are actually very happy to invite "students" from abroad. They do not even worry if these "students" will actually receive a visa, what they worry about it is to take the money asap.
A big part of any educational business in the UK is fed by profits coming from applying thirld world students wishing in this way to get a visa.
The same applies to Malta, the Chinese apply all over the schools there.
Title: Re: Beware of UK Visas Ofice in Kyiv
Post by: rjm on 18:58 18-Aug-2008
My god what world do you live in?????????

How is it logic????? Statistics and your governments present stance suggest Im correct.

With regards to your final paragraph, are you agreeing or disagreeing because you start off in normal dissmissive fashion then go on to almost repeat what I said  ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ???

I dont really want a debate on this as I just get the impression you like taking the contrary view just for the sake if it!!!!!!!!!

 
Yes you are correct but its the sheer weight of numbers that is frightening!! also 100s of fake educational establishments were formed in the UK (mainly by Nigerians) solely with the purpose of selling invites to fake English courses to Africans at a high cost, literally 10s of thousands got into the UK this way by applying for education Visas!

Having said all this your country has even bigger problems with such people, I was in Bologna 5 years ago and in 2 days was the atempted victim of pickpockets and robbers by Africans roaming about the station area.

BritKyiv, what kind of photo evidences did you have to provide? just curious...

RJM, the question of African and Asians is another issue. I think most of them enter the UK (and the rest of EU) presenting other reasons such as claiming refugee status or asking to join relatives who already reside there. Also some Asians may apply for working visa, either as qualified workers (true for some EU countries) or menial workers.

Here for partners of CIS/Russian spouses/fiancees, usually Italian invite them to Italy as if their partners where cleaning ladies/санитаркы/etc... They find it much easier than going the legal way.


No, my countru has much less troubles with immigration than the UK. This is logic.

Pickpockets exists here but this is not an immigration problem since all you have to do it is to hold tightly your belongings.

Hopefully you do not think they are just this made-on-spot nigerian schools to invite "students".
Lots of establishments all over the UK (London on top) are actually very happy to invite "students" from abroad. They do not even worry if these "students" will actually receive a visa, what they worry about it is to take the money asap.
A big part of any educational business in the UK is fed by profits coming from applying thirld world students wishing in this way to get a visa.
The same applies to Malta, the Chinese apply all over the schools there.
Title: Re: Beware of UK Visas Ofice in Kyiv
Post by: Moving on 01:15 19-Aug-2008
RJM my point is that lots of UK citizens regularly take advantage of visa policies and are more than happy to invite thirld worlders to study in your (their) own country.

As concern Italy, it is pretty naive to think that pickpockets are an immigration problem.

Immigrations problems sussists when the immigrant is allowed to land qualified jobs, as long as he/she pickpocket or clean streets, this is not an issue at all.
Title: Re: Beware of UK Visas Ofice in Kyiv
Post by: free spirit on 02:12 19-Aug-2008
RJM my point is that lots of UK citizens regularly take advantage of visa policies and are more than happy to invite thirld worlders to study in your (their) own country.

As concern Italy, it is pretty naive to think that pickpockets are an immigration problem.

Immigrations problems sussists when the immigrant is allowed to land qualified jobs, as long as he/she pickpocket or clean streets, this is not an issue at all.


Well, having had the occasion to accompany a Japanese friend with a visa problem to the visa place at Lunar House in Croydon (a nightmare), I can confirm that in many cases it is third worlders who are making the decisions on who gets to come into the UK - the staff at such a place seemed almost entirely from the Third World (albeit probably with UK passports). And anyone going to Heathrow cannot have failed to notice that UK border control has been contracted out to India and Pakistan. In some cases I have wanted to ask the pair of eyes staring at me from the Muslim veil for HER passport, never mind her decide whether I (of English and Irish) descent get to get into my country. So this visa thing in the UK is a load of nonsense from start to finish. How long does it take to get a UK passport? Two years? Well, I have been in China for longer, without any hint from the Chinese that China is now my country and I should start lording it over the Chinese! I don't suppose you get this nonsense in the Ukraine!
Title: Re: Beware of UK Visas Office in Kyiv
Post by: JonathanCampion on 08:26 19-Aug-2008
So: India and Pakistan = third world, hijjab = foreign, the wearers of which are probably illegal immigrants, and white = British? I'm sorry to take exception to another one of your posts but surely I'm not the only one who finds that paragraph hugely ignorant?

Firstly I agree with you totally that the process of getting a UK passport is a farce. Remember the story about the soldier from the Caribbean who was refused one because, although he had served in the British army for 5 years, he had spent some of that time outside Britain?

But I can't read your post without getting the impression that you think these "third worlders" - God, where did that expression come from? - are worse than you, or spoiling our middle class Britishness. Since when did ethnic minorities start to "lord over" Britain? I haven't lived there for a year or so, tell me, do they now run politics and the media? Can white people now not get a word in edgeways in the House of Commons and there are now black people on the BBC besides corner shop owners and rappers?

As far as Heathrow is concerned, why not show off Britain's multicultural side to everyone who enters our country, and at the same time give the menial jobs to those who apply for them?

It is not your country any more than it is hers.
Title: Re: Beware of UK Visas Ofice in Kyiv
Post by: free spirit on 09:02 19-Aug-2008
Jonathan, I may have wrongly assumed this is what another poster was hinting at. I may also wrongly have assumed that one can speak more openly on such topics in Ukraine. I am a dissident, just like Solzhenitsyn. So this is a samizdat post.

I wouldn't say white=British, as there are white people who aren't, but British=white. Having a UK passport doesn't turn you into a member of the British nation. Nationality is a technical issue of holding a passport. National identity involves, culture, language, history, religion, ancestry... in a word, identity.

People from the Caribbean should not be serving in the British army. How many Africans are there in the Ukrainian army by the way? I did not suggest people from the Third World - expression used by another poster - are worse. But they have their own countries and cultures, and good luck to them in developing those.

Quote
Since when did ethnic minorities start to "lord over" Britain?

Well for a Pakistani to decide who enters Britain is offensive.

Quote
I haven't lived there for a year or so, tell me, do they now run politics and the media? Can white people now not get a word in edgeways in the House of Commons and there are now black people on the BBC besides corner shop owners and rappers?

There are politicians with no British ancestry in the UK. Keith Vaz from India was Europe Minister, and now there is another black man in some ministry. And the numbers of these are going to go up - English people will be a minority in their own country later this century. Trevor Phillips lords it over English people in the Commission for RAcial Equality (aka Commission for Ethnic Supremacy over English People). And have you actually watched the BBC? Most of the newscasters are ethnic, and the soaps appear to show England as at least 50% ethnic.

Quote
As far as Heathrow is concerned, why not show off Britain's multicultural side to everyone who enters our country, and at the same time give the menial jobs to those who apply for them

Well they are showing it off. Whether it is anything to be proud of is another thing.

Quote
It is not your country any more than it is hers.

No, it is not. They are guests in our country. As Enoch Powell said, we must be mad to be piling up our funeral pyre!

My article on British national identity published in the Salisbury Review in England can be read at http://djronnqvist.com/?p=9. I sincerely hope Ukrainians see through multiculturalism as just another form of Marxism.
Title: Re: Beware of UK Visas Ofice in Kyiv
Post by: JonathanCampion on 09:23 19-Aug-2008
Obviously we have different ideas as to what it means to be British, but this isn't the place to discuss it. I will read your article in my lunch break and see what I make of it.
Title: Re: Beware of UK Visas Office in Kyiv
Post by: Moving on 09:29 19-Aug-2008
So: India and Pakistan = third world, hijjab = foreign, the wearers of which are probably illegal immigrants, and white = British? I'm sorry to take exception to another one of your posts but surely I'm not the only one who finds that paragraph hugely ignorant?

Firstly I agree with you totally that the process of getting a UK passport is a farce. Remember the story about the soldier from the Caribbean who was refused one because, although he had served in the British army for 5 years, he had spent some of that time outside Britain?

But I can't read your post without getting the impression that you think these "third worlders" - God, where did that expression come from? - are worse than you, or spoiling our middle class Britishness. Since when did ethnic minorities start to "lord over" Britain? I haven't lived there for a year or so, tell me, do they now run politics and the media? Can white people now not get a word in edgeways in the House of Commons and there are now black people on the BBC besides corner shop owners and rappers?

As far as Heathrow is concerned, why not show off Britain's multicultural side to everyone who enters our country, and at the same time give the menial jobs to those who apply for them?

It is not your country any more than it is hers.

My dear both the terms Thirld and Fourth Worlders are terms used even  by world famous economists. 
Of course in the UK, those terms are regarded as offensive.
Title: Re: Beware of UK Visas Office in Kyiv
Post by: JonathanCampion on 09:33 19-Aug-2008
First class cultural expression, from whichever world it comes from:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZzazL9du_ow

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eW67-R0_r0E

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nj6JiXjErTI
Title: Re: Beware of UK Visas Ofice in Kyiv
Post by: ecocks on 10:17 19-Aug-2008
Wow. 

Thanks to all of the last few posters, each in their own way, for reminding me why I love my country so much.  Thank you clicks coming around in a minute.

Title: Re: Beware of UK Visas Ofice in Kyiv
Post by: Moving on 10:49 19-Aug-2008
Wow. 

Thanks to all of the last few posters, each in their own way, for reminding me why I love my country so much.  Thank you clicks coming around in a minute.



your country on the passport or the country you live in?

Title: Re: Beware of UK Visas Ofice in Kyiv
Post by: ecocks on 10:55 19-Aug-2008
My country as in country of birth, citizenship and natonality.  I love Ukraine in its own way but my country is still the United States of America.
Title: Re: Beware of UK Visas Ofice in Kyiv
Post by: JonathanCampion on 11:11 19-Aug-2008
In the countries where all of us first worlders originate from, there are many people who own a passport from that country by virtue of residence or marriage but identify with another. Some integrate, some don't - I have Chinese friends who have read more Dickens than I ever will, and I know more about Ukrainian history than most of my friends here.

I am very sure that the girl in the hijjab who looked at your passport was born in Britain, went to school there, passed British exams etc. Assuming her parents are from, say, Pakistan, what parts of their culture they passed on to her while she was growing up shouldn't have any bearing on how welcome she feels in Britain, all the more so if her job is to welcome visitors to her country and to check that they have a right to be there.

To use a long-winded cricket simile in relation to Free Spirit's personal feelings on the immigration issue, it's like the Lord's honours board - the pitch has become easier to play on in recent years (read: more possibilities to immigrate), so previous scorers of hundreds feel that their achievements (read: culture and white British history) is being diluted by unknowns (read: immigrants from the Asian subcontinent, or less adept batsmen.)

A country is made up of millions of individual stories - when my blog is done and dusted, my next project will be uncovering a few of Ukraine's.
Title: Re: Beware of UK Visas Ofice in Kyiv
Post by: SteveH on 12:22 19-Aug-2008
Over a Hundred Thousand Taxpaying Brits are Leaving Great Britain Every Year,
Tens of Thousands of Social Security Scroungers are Entering Great Britain Every Year.
Will the British Government still be Paying Pensions into Your Bank Accounts in 20,30,40 Years, Any Money left in the Kitty?.
----------------------------------------------------------

This was the Figures in 2006  ???  ???  ???

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/article-23373110-details/Exodus:%20A%20million%20Brits%20emigrate%20while%20three%20million%20enter/article.do


Exodus: A million Brits emigrate while three million enter
Last updated at 12:22pm on 03.11.06  
   
Fly away home: The number of British citizens who emigrate each year has gone up by more than a third since the mid-1990s
More than a million Britons have fled the country to lead new lives abroad since the turn of the Millennium, new figures showed.

The number of British citizens who emigrate each year has gone up by more than a third since the mid-1990s.

And while more and more people are quitting to live in France, Spain, Australia or America, fewer Britons are coming back from abroad to live at home than at any time in a decade.

The picture of an increasing flow of emigrants came in an official count of migration that showed foreigners continue to flood into this country in unprecedented numbers.

The Office for National Statistics said that 565,000 people came into the country last year - around 1,500 every day. It found that 474,000 of these were foreigners intending to live in Britain.

That means that the population grew by around 500 people a day because of the greater number of immigrants than emigrants.
Title: Re: Beware of UK Visas Ofice in Kyiv
Post by: rjm on 22:15 19-Aug-2008
I think the Steve H post sums it up totally!!!

We can listen to rhetoric all day but the fact of the matter is that every time I visit the UK I encounter more and  more friends who are pissed off with the changes in society and express a desire to leave the country. Some views I here are bordering on racist but some are legitimate concerns with the fast changing New Labour model of Britain that seems to want to accomodate and promote every minority group under the sun!

Last year I visited South London and I felt like a stranger and was genuinely horrified at what our capital city has become and daily news bulletins of shooting amongst the black community there since have hardly wheted my appetite for another visit.

Being of Scottish/Irish blood Im not the traditional follower of "middle England" views but even I can see that our country is sleepwalking into future problems and the the distressing thing is the amount of people who cannot see it and prefer to support the "rights" of people who in many cases are about as integrated as a pork chop at a Jewish wedding!!!   
Title: Re: Beware of UK Visas Ofice in Kyiv
Post by: azzice on 01:27 20-Aug-2008
How immigrants can be so negative toward immigrants. It is just because you aren't black ? Or you are class A immigrants? Or what?  :o :o

Title: Re: Beware of UK Visas Ofice in Kyiv
Post by: azzice on 01:39 20-Aug-2008



I wouldn't say white=British, as there are white people who aren't, but British=white. Having a UK passport doesn't turn you into a member of the British nation. Nationality is a technical issue of holding a passport. National identity involves, culture, language, history, religion, ancestry... in a word, identity.



So black people cannot be member of British nation? Even if same religion, language, culture? So it is just a question of colour???  ??? ??? ???

You are not a dissident. Just a poor ignorant racist.
Title: Re: Beware of UK Visas Ofice in Kyiv
Post by: free spirit on 05:22 20-Aug-2008



I wouldn't say white=British, as there are white people who aren't, but British=white. Having a UK passport doesn't turn you into a member of the British nation. Nationality is a technical issue of holding a passport. National identity involves, culture, language, history, religion, ancestry... in a word, identity.



So black people cannot be member of British nation? Even if same religion, language, culture? So it is just a question of colour???  ??? ??? ???

You are not a dissident. Just a poor ignorant racist.

Well, I will overlook the name-calling. It is not a question of colour, but of identity. I think that without the multiculturalists who have pushed this agenda to the point of criminalising other views, black people would have assimilated better, but at the moment, they are enabled to cry "RACIST" whenever things don't go their way. So clearly they view themselves as different, and wield a weapon against British people. It is because of this that they are not British, whatever their passport says. Think of the origins of the English - they were quite "diverse" to use a catchphrase - Vikings, Angles, Saxons, Jutes, Celts... but unless you can show me that the Vikings maintain themselves as a separate group in England today, suing for discrimination whenever they don't get their way, with separate Viking police associations and whatnot - unless can show that, you don't have a valid point. Black people have not assimilated - for one thing, assimilation would mean getting their crime levels down to the average. The newspapers are all pushing the multiculti agenda for all its worth - look at reports that you read of "stabbing by Londoner"... and ask yourself why they don't give details of the assailant... it's because the assailant is black... which information leaks out eventually. Hmm! Let me see! 16 teenagers stabbed in London this year... 15 of them black... all the assailants black... How's your maths, azzice?? ;) I am embarrassed even to walk down the street in London and see what it has become. I am living in China, and China's richest cities are no longer so poor - Shanghai, Shenzhen etc $10,000 per capita. But, they are not trying to create Bangladesh and Nigeria in their cities. Hong Kong... hmm... richer than England... everyone from any nationality can go without a visa. So no visa nonsense, which I welcome!! Does that mean that it is developing as a multicultural society replete with crime levels to match? No, in fact, no. Now, why would that be? Would it be because Hong Kong is shut off from the world? A Hong Kong equivalent of a "Little Englander" mentality? Er...no... it is an international trade and finance centre. So how can it trade with the world and be open to the world and let anyone come without a visa and not get into deep ****? Might it be because you can't go there and claim the local benefits and then invite all your family to go there and live on benefits and sue the locals for alleged (and largely non-existent) discrimination when things don't go your way?? Could we learn something from Hong Kong?
Title: Re: Beware of UK Visas Ofice in Kyiv
Post by: P-N on 07:28 20-Aug-2008
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1047136/Labours-open-door-policy-sees-immigration-soar-fold-compared-Tory-decade.html

How exact this is who knows - statistics are a tool for anyone and for accomplished "misleaders and misinterpretors" such as politicians none of which could lay straight in bed (on either side of "the house"), these statistics can no doubt me matched against other statistics "showing" more have also been turned away.

I do hope, however, it is another nail in the career coffin of Gordon Clown, a man clearly not fit to lead a boy scout camping expedition let alone a country.
Title: Re: Beware of UK Visas Ofice in Kyiv
Post by: rjm on 07:31 20-Aug-2008
bore off  ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ???

Most of us used to hear enough of this claptrap in the UK and find Ukraine a welcome break from it.

How immigrants can be so negative toward immigrants. It is just because you aren't black ? Or you are class A immigrants? Or what?  :o :o


Title: Re: Beware of UK Visas Ofice in Kyiv
Post by: Moving on 08:18 20-Aug-2008
well many people could easily argue that UK would not be the today's powerhouse which it is (despite Brits love slandering the UK, the country is still the most important european leader and the country with the highest per capita income - not to list that despite P-N comments Brits pay less taxes than other EU nationals) without the immigrants

some other would argue "you reap what you sew" (mispelled) because it is naive to think that the UK has no responsibilities towards some thirld world nationalities

Anyway what I am interested in it is RJM's comment, in fact it is totally misleading to attribute to Blacks that sort of crime which is daily perpetrated even by Whites. The knife culture (and the stabbings he cites) in the UK belongs equally both to Blacks and Whites.


Title: Re: Beware of UK Visas Ofice in Kyiv
Post by: rjm on 08:32 20-Aug-2008
Yet again Im assuming you are merely fishing with that 3rd paragraph so I advice no one to bite.

Either that or you know ZERO about the current Knife situation in London!!!!

well many people could easily argue that UK would not be the today's powerhouse which it is (despite Brits love slandering the UK, the country is still the most important european leader and the country with the highest per capita income - not to list that despite P-N comments Brits pay less taxes than other EU nationals) without the immigrants

some other would argue "you reap what you sew" (mispelled) because it is naive to think that the UK has no responsibilities towards some thirld world nationalities

Anyway what I am interested in it is RJM's comment, in fact it is totally misleading to attribute to Blacks that sort of crime which is daily perpetrated even by Whites. The knife culture (and the stabbings he cites) in the UK belongs equally both to Blacks and Whites.



Title: Re: Beware of UK Visas Ofice in Kyiv
Post by: free spirit on 08:55 20-Aug-2008
RJM, you said don't bite, but I think I have 90% of the Ukrainian population on my side when I say this:

Given that all three main parties support immigration in the UK, any stats showing the system is failing are likely to be undercounting the problem... as no one with a chance at power is trying to do anything about this.

Immigrants and the UK powerhouse? Well... you have to break it down. German immigrants...doing jobs in the finance industry? Not going to be a problem. East European immigrants doing plastering for half the price, isn't a problem for me (although I think the government and the media have tried to confuse people by turning the immigration debate into a issue about Poles...  cynically). Somalis, nearly all sitting on benefit... what is the advantage here? Bangladeshis sitting on benefit in Tower Hamlets... how are they going to "pay our pensions" unless they get jobs. Have you ever wondered why the stats aren't broken down by origin in this way... the powers that be don't want the reality to become clear. In the US, George Borjas, a Cuban immigrant, is a famous labour economist who has shown that there is no net advantage to the US by immigration: true they do things cheaper, but add in benefits, spending on prisons etc, and things become murky. The boost to GDP in the US is ENTIRELY accounted for by wages and benefits received by the Mexicans, leaving no advantage to US citizens. Actually, what immigration is is privatisation of advantages and nationalisation of costs. For an individual business that manages to get cheaper labour, it is good. For the country as a whole, there is welfare spending, money sent back by Western Union, an increase in crime, spending on  prisons, but all those things are coming out of the public purse, so the individual company has "nationalised" the costs.

The UK has done its bit: with about 15% of the population from minorities (well the last census said 13%, but school reception classes show about 20%, so I split the difference), we have fully done our quota. China: well 10% of China's population is 130m, so the next 130m asylum seekers go to China. India: the next 100m go to India. Indonesia: 20m, Pakistan: 12m. Bangladesh: 12m. Nigeria: 10m. Thi way it is fair. We don't OWE anyone anything. Apart from the fact that the ex-colonies have mostly done really badly since we left - look at Zimbabwe!!!!!

Knife culture is disproportionately black, but not totally. Gun killings almost wholly black. They don't publish crime figures by race anymore, in case they are "put to the wrong use". But a while back, a chief constable of police said, "so what if 80% of muggings in London are by blacks... 85% of crime in a Sunderland is by whites". Er... er... er... gosh... no IQ tests before getting jobs in the police force then. The fact that Sunderland, 98.6% white in the last census, has 85% of crime done by white people does NOT show English people are overrrepresented in crime there. 85% according to my calculator is less than 98.6%. Why are 1.4% ethnic minorities in Sunderland doing 15% of crime???? We have to put up with this constant idiocy by public figures, drawing salaries from the public purse but working against us.
Title: Re: Beware of UK Visas Ofice in Kyiv
Post by: rjm on 09:26 20-Aug-2008
Although I agree with much of what you say please dont confuse me as anti imigration!!!!

As someone already mentioned that would be hypocritical considering Ive lived in Ukraine for 5 years and Russia before that.

Controlled Imigration has always been vital to Britains progress and long may it continue, what I object to is this term "Multi Culturism" this is a term invented by the liberals but in reality has no real meaning, in UK there is only ONE culture "British" in Ukraine also its the same, I choose to live in Ukraine and live here as a local and despite many moans have to respect the Ukrainian culture or go somewhere else, from what I can see in British cities its very different and people are living in very divided communities with no trust or integration with other cultures, this is potentially dangerous and harmful in my view and in some cases ghettos have almost been created, Nottingham, Moss Side, Peckham etc. I dont see much sign of Britishness there or people wanting to contribute to the nation.

If people want to create Bangladesh, Pakistan, Poland or Lithuania in UK this is completely disrespectful to the country that allowed these people to prosper, I would never dream of setting up a British area here in Beresteiska as I know that is fundamentally wrong and disrespectful to Ukraine.

Im a great advocate of multi nationalisn but multi culturism is a recipe for disaster.

In UK the only people I ever met who advovcated multi culturism was the "Highgate set" because it increased the variety of restaurants in their area and gave them an endless supply of people who would wash their car for 2 quid!!!!!!!!!!!!! Meanwhile us in the real world....................................................   
Title: Re: Beware of UK Visas Ofice in Kyiv
Post by: P-N on 10:01 20-Aug-2008
well many people could easily argue that UK would not be the today's powerhouse which it is (despite Brits love slandering the UK, the country is still the most important european leader and the country with the highest per capita income - not to list that despite P-N comments Brits pay less taxes than other EU nationals) without the immigrants

some other would argue "you reap what you sew" (mispelled) because it is naive to think that the UK has no responsibilities towards some thirld world nationalities

Anyway what I am interested in it is RJM's comment, in fact it is totally misleading to attribute to Blacks that sort of crime which is daily perpetrated even by Whites. The knife culture (and the stabbings he cites) in the UK belongs equally both to Blacks and Whites.




Moving some of what you say I tend to agree with, some I do not.  The most influential EU country is Germany - Germany pays more towards the EU than Britian (although Britian is second) , it has a bigger and better manufacturing and design base than Britain, it has a far superior infrastructure than Britain (ours is good but theirs is better).  Germany is also represented by a leadership which looks after the interests of Germany first and foremost and does not allow itself to be "led down the garden path" by other nations as the UK has done.  Germany then looks after their interests in Europe and the world with purely German interests at heart.  As a German citizen that is what you want.  You are correct, the UK is an influence in Europe but no more so than Germany or France for that matter.

If we are to assume your arguement that the UK does have responsibilities to other "developing nations", then it is failing in those resposibilities dramatically.  Within the "Commonwealth" (read old empire which upon it's collapse, nations still wanting trade and political ties with the UK) is Zimbabwe.  Robert Mugabi is a despot tyrant equal in his treatment of his people to that of Saddam Hussian.  He has been in power since the 1980's, is still in power and has in fact been Knighted by the UK.  Of the "developing nations" those in the Commonwealth, morally and politically the UK should be assisting first you could argue.  What have we done? - nothing what so ever.

In the 1960's when Britain had a shortage of workers, Enoch Powell, a senior politician of the time, warned of the future problems of allowing almost uncontrolled numbers of migrants from the "Commonwealth" for future generations:  

http://www.sterlingtimes.co.uk/powell_press.htm  It is but one of his many speeches on the subject of migration and the future of the country at the time.

Regardless of his views, this led to mass migration from Jamica, Pakistan, India, and other corners of the Commonwealth.  It also solved the accute shortage of labour (predominently in the lower paid jobs) of the country at the time.

These people duely had children (and these children had children etc.) born in Britain, therefore by birth being "British".  The parents and grandparents also wanted to keep "home tradition" alive and not be forgotten.  (No radical difference to Americans celebrating 4th July in Ukraine or me celebrating Christmas on 25 December here for example).  This lead to several generations of British (via birth)/Indians (via tradition), the same for Pakistan, Jamica etc. etc.

It is every parents desire (if they are worthy of being a parent) that their children exceed their own achievements in life and therefore the children were encouraged to take full advantage of a far superior education system (1960's - 1990's) than they would have had prior to their parents migration.

This didnot immediately lead to their advancement in the workplace or society and caused the "Race Riots" of the 1980's in Brixton, Toxteth and St Pauls to name but a few.  

Eventually legislation was passed to assist these people and led to these individuals succeeding in the work place of the traditional "Anglo-Saxon".

What also happened, due to many reasons, (some down to the above) was the re-discovery of their cultural past.  This then divided these groups further.  You need only walk around Glascow, Leeds, Bradford, Manchester, Blackburn etc. and you will now find extreme hatred between the British (with Indian roots) and the British (with Pakistani roots) in line with the international thinking of both countries today.  It has indeed turned into violence along these lines on the streets of Britain both as indivduals and groups.  This polarisation had led to whole communities locating themselves in particular streets where nobody but a British-Pakistani or British Indian can or will live respectively (as an example).  In this respect Britian has indeed reaped what it has sewn.....but it has been magnified by international events too.

As much as the British education system is not the worst, it is not as good as it has been.  There are many who obtain degrees because they have been taught how to pass the examinations without a full understanding of the degree contents.  I know you will not believe that, but as an employer I can see that drastic difference between those who obtained their degrees 10 years ago and those who obtained them 3 years ago.  The understanding of the subject is vastly different, to the disadvantage of the more recent graduate and the employer.

There is, now, once again, the circle coming back around (as the 1960's and 1970's generation of migrants retire) of skills shortages which is again multiplied by the lack of interest by many "Anglo-Saxon's" in studying medicine, sciences, nursing and dentistry for example and the lack of traditional apprenticeships in manufacturing and construction.

With regards the health service (for example) this is further complicated by "National Health Trusts" being accountable for every £ they spend to deliver patient care.  They will therefore look to stretch this £ as far as is possible, resulting in offering work to Indian Doctor graduates (for example) who have a sound knowledge of their qualification and will work for less in many cases.  It is a business "trade off" to stretch every £ against politics and fiscal policy of Government and also creates the necessity for continued migration to the UK.

The majority of posters (i think  :-\) would not be against the migration of educated, competent skilled people coming into the UK to benefit the UK, particularly on a "contract basis" as I have worked around the world.  They will be against the mass migration of unskilled and morally iligitimate migrants coming to the UK for the obvious benefits to themselves without returning anything to the UK in the short, medium or long term which past migration policies have allowed almost unhindered.  Only now is the UK introducing a policy similar to that which has been in use by Australia for over a decade but as the saying goes, the horse has long since bolted and we are only now closing the stable door.

Knife crime (and crime in general) is affected by the migrants (to what degree is open to debate) due to the polarisation (as mentioned above) of communities within Britain and turns into a "turf war" between the youth/young adults from the communties.  Much violence can be attributed to people from "different neighbouring housing estates" throughout the country and often (but not always) these "estates" are split along "historical migration" lines which has led to polarised communities.  It is therefore not a difference between Grade A and Grade B migrants but the proximity between the ethnic groups and the "ideologies" these groups have about themselves and others around them.

The UK has a very complex problem, brought upon ourselves (with at the time little alternaive in the 1960's), which may never be resolved.



 

Title: Re: Beware of UK Visas Ofice in Kyiv
Post by: azzice on 10:14 20-Aug-2008
so on this site you cant speak about  sex but write a ton of racist bpoops?
Where is the administrator?

Mybe kick the new nazibrit theorist?
Title: Re: Beware of UK Visas Ofice in Kyiv
Post by: JonathanCampion on 10:17 20-Aug-2008
- which of us are racists?
Title: Re: Beware of UK Visas Ofice in Kyiv
Post by: Carlusha on 10:50 20-Aug-2008
I don't see any racism.  :) Perhaps a mention in a round about way that the island is sinking under sheer weight of numbers but it can hardly be taken as racism as such.
Title: Re: Beware of UK Visas Ofice in Kyiv
Post by: free spirit on 11:11 20-Aug-2008
so on this site you cant speak about  sex but write a ton of racist bpoops?
Where is the administrator?

Mybe kick the new nazibrit theorist?

Well, you may feel free to kick me - I won't mind at all. While I would prefer you didn't hurl accusations along the line of "racist" and "nazi", I will overlook those too, so fire away...

Maybe I don't know what happened on the board before, was "sex" a forbidden subject? If this opens cans of worms, don't feel obliged to explain!
Title: Re: Beware of UK Visas Ofice in Kyiv
Post by: SteveH on 11:29 20-Aug-2008
Carlushika-Its a Wonder the Country has not Sank!!

The Mid 2006 Population of England (Not GB) was Over 50 Million
Ukraine has 5 Times the Land but the Same Population Figures as England?

http://www.woodlands-junior.kent.sch.uk/customs/questions/population.html

Great Britain is heavily populated compared with many other countries.
Britain is a relatively densely populated country: it is more than twice as densely populated as France (106 people per sq.km), nine times as densely populated as the USA (27 people per sq.km) and 100 times as densely populated as Australia (2 people per sq.km).
------------------------------------------------------------
These are Facts , Not Racist Comments!
Migrants will help to swell population of England by two London-sized cities within 50 years
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1021344/Migrants-help-swell-population-England-London-sized-cities-50-years.html

Last updated at 11:23 AM on 23rd May 2008

The population of England is to increase by the equivalent of two new cities of the size of London within half a century, researchers said last night.

The independent House of Commons Library is predicting that by 2056 there will be an extra 17million people  -  taking the total to 67.9million.

More births, people living longer and, more significantly, continued mass immigration will fuel the unprecedented growth in numbers.

The research came as an influential group of MPs demanded urgent improvements in the Government's methods of counting the population, claiming that it is 'not fit for purpose'.  

Title: Re: Beware of UK Visas Ofice in Kyiv
Post by: free spirit on 11:58 20-Aug-2008
Steve,  consider one would have to worry about losing one's job if one posted such comments on the Internet in England. Madness!
Title: Re: Beware of UK Visas Ofice in Kyiv
Post by: Carlusha on 12:15 20-Aug-2008
Sorry if we are boring you non-Brits here!

There was a documentary on TV a few weeks back one evening about a man and his partner with 20 kids, living on benefits. However they both had enough money to drink and smoke all day long, he said he would need to take home over £500 per week to get the same he was receiving in benefits. Further, if I recall the details correctly, he was demanding a larger home than the 5 bedroom house provided and paid for with housing benefits!

The REAL cost of unemployment (to UK) is £61 billion per year - see http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-426074/The-REAL-cost-unemployment-61-billion-year.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-426074/The-REAL-cost-unemployment-61-billion-year.html)

Is it any wonder the masses wish to come to Utopia when we so readily hand out our taxes to all and sundry?
Title: Re: Beware of UK Visas Ofice in Kyiv
Post by: ecocks on 12:25 20-Aug-2008
Sorry if we are boring you non-Brits here!

There was a documentary on TV a few weeks back one evening about a man and his partner with 20 kids, living on benefits. However they both had enough money to drink and smoke all day long, he said he would need to take home over £500 per week to get the same he was receiving in benefits. Further, if I recall the details correctly, he was demanding a larger home than the 5 bedroom house provided and paid for with housing benefits!

The REAL cost of unemployment (to UK) is £61 billion per year - see http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-426074/The-REAL-cost-unemployment-61-billion-year.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-426074/The-REAL-cost-unemployment-61-billion-year.html)

Is it any wonder the masses wish to come to Utopia when we so readily hand out our taxes to all and sundry?

I am finding it enormously interesting.

It's like looking behind the curtain at the circus. 

Some people I had pegged and others I am learning things which were unsuspected.

LOL.

Ed
Title: Re: Beware of UK Visas Ofice in Kyiv
Post by: azzice on 12:30 20-Aug-2008
I went on Crete for Holydays. One Night in Malia i saw hundreds of very white UK young people.

It was the most disgusting show i have ever seen in my life. Vomiting everywhere, beating everybody, provocating everybody, screaming like animals, 200 kilos teenager girls making sex in public.

Locals told me that it is everyday like this, in summer, when british are there.

Maybe you have to start thinking about your kids ?

Title: Re: Beware of UK Visas Ofice in Kyiv
Post by: SteveH on 12:32 20-Aug-2008
Best to Avoid Any Mammal that Eats and Bites  ;) ;) ;)

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Maybe they were Angry over Their Lost Luggage :D :D

Holidaymakers in flight bag chaos 

 http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/tyne/7571971.stm

Newcastle Airport said it was disappointed by the disruption
More than 150 holidaymakers on a flight to Crete were told they either had to fly without their bags or almost half of them would be left behind in the UK.

The passengers were on the runway at Newcastle Airport when the Viking Airlines pilot broke the news that the plane needed to lose weight.

The flight eventually took off without their luggage after crews failed to find 70 volunteers to leave the plane.

A spokesman for Viking Airlines declined to comment.

Holidaymaker Sandra Kendall, 53, of Forest Hall, North Tyneside, said chaos was created by the ultimatum on 1 August.
 
Title: Re: Beware of UK Visas Ofice in Kyiv
Post by: azzice on 12:34 20-Aug-2008
MMh i have a question...how many of you pay tax in Ukraine?  ;)
Title: Re: Beware of UK Visas Ofice in Kyiv
Post by: azzice on 12:40 20-Aug-2008
I think nobody. Right?
Title: Re: Beware of UK Visas Ofice in Kyiv
Post by: azzice on 12:43 20-Aug-2008
So it is not very different from asking benefits...
Title: Re: Beware of UK Visas Ofice in Kyiv
Post by: SteveH on 12:44 20-Aug-2008
Been There, Done It, Got the Paperwork ;D ;D


Taxpayer's number
 
 In Kyiv, you go to the central city tax office at Sholudenka 33/19 any workday between 9:30 and 18:00 with your passport and fill out a small form.
(it's free to become a taxpayer!).  :D :D
Title: Re: Beware of UK Visas Ofice in Kyiv
Post by: free spirit on 12:55 20-Aug-2008
I went on Crete for Holydays. One Night in Malia i saw hundreds of very white UK young people.

It was the most disgusting show i have ever seen in my life. Vomiting everywhere, beating everybody, provocating everybody, screaming like animals, 200 kilos teenager girls making sex in public.

Locals told me that it is everyday like this, in summer, when british are there.

Maybe you have to start thinking about your kids ?



Yes, unfortunately, Brits abroad don't have the best reputation. Stag parties in the Baltics are another source of newspaper articles... Generally speaking, if you move abroad, you may not want to be the ONLY Brit within a 100 mile radius, but the areas where there are lots of Brits (France, Spain, Greece etc) might be a little bit too much like a home from home!!
Title: Re: Beware of UK Visas Ofice in Kyiv
Post by: azzice on 12:59 20-Aug-2008
You did it just in order to obtain your permit....as everybody.

So you think it is funny? What is funny for me is watching "live" the end of your glorious nation.

Russians own half of London and in England are more powerful than the Government. The biggest english companies are owned by foreigners , russians, chinese, indians - BP for example...same for the football teams. You told enough about immigration...

So who is guilty for this situation? Black immigration or British weakness?
 



Title: Re: Beware of UK Visas Ofice in Kyiv
Post by: free spirit on 13:27 20-Aug-2008
Azzice, you didn't say where you are from. You may watch the end of our "glorious nation" (we don't generally go in for Kim Il-sung speak, but I'll take the backhanded compliment!), and you may even enjoy the spectacle... but at least we had a glorious nation to decline from in the first place, eh? Can you say the same?
Title: Re: Beware of UK Visas Ofice in Kyiv
Post by: SteveH on 13:37 20-Aug-2008
"You did it just in order to obtain your permit....as everybody."
Not Me Azzice,i Don`t work in Ukraine,Never Have.

Russia Owns Half of Kiev and in Ukraine are More Powerful than the Government.

Maybe it wil be Russkraine in Years to Come?.
Title: Re: Beware of UK Visas Ofice in Kyiv
Post by: Moving on 14:14 20-Aug-2008
MMh i have a question...how many of you pay tax in Ukraine?  ;)

very good question. probably as same as in russia lots of foreigners there DO NOT PAY taxes not to mention  that MOST OF THEM have probably broken SEVERAL TIMES visa laws. just the fact to be on a business visa whilst all you do it is spending time with your beloved wife, it is a CRIME.

I have seen expats doing many illegal things to get visa/permits/etc...
This is how they respect the country.

PS. someone forgets that a 12yo boy stabbing someone else in the UK, it is not an immigrant but someone holding british citizenship
Title: Re: Beware of UK Visas Ofice in Kyiv
Post by: Carlusha on 14:55 20-Aug-2008

I have seen expats doing many illegal things to get visa/permits/etc...
This is how they respect the country.


Really? I assume you are referring to expats in Ukraine. Pray enlighten us as to your experiences, we are all ears (sic)!
Title: Re: Beware of UK Visas Ofice in Kyiv
Post by: ecocks on 15:00 20-Aug-2008
MMh i have a question...how many of you pay tax in Ukraine?  ;)

I do.  Every month.  My clients and employees say I am crazy, go figure. 

As for the visa situation, I registered when I needed to and paid my fines cheerfully when I missed a renewal date.

I will tender an observation that perhaps a higher percentage of expats pay taxes than the local citizenry.
Title: Re: Beware of UK Visas Ofice in Kyiv
Post by: P-N on 15:50 20-Aug-2008
I just paid $37,000 in tax on the sale of one house - I bet I pay more tax than the most Ukraines, selling 2 in the past month.  I have no problem with paying tax here - I have paid it from the age of 16.

Azzice, if my earlier (and lengthy) post came across to you as racist, I have been misunderstood.  It was posted to provide a historical context to someones question.  The internet link held within the post (from Enouch Powell) was not included to raise racist sentiment but to provide historical context as to Britain in the 1960' and 1970's and the difficulties the then government had between a short term solution to a labour crisis and the forcasts of those such as Enouch Powell of the possible long term problems it would cause in society.

The article is not there to represent my views or necessarily those of anyone else on the forum.  Enouch Powell died many years ago, as stated it was included simply to provide historical context.  There is not a chance in present day Britain that such statements would be printed without some form of legal comeback.

Title: Re: Beware of UK Visas Ofice in Kyiv
Post by: free spirit on 16:46 20-Aug-2008
The article is not there to represent my views or necessarily those of anyone else on the forum.  Enouch Powell died many years ago, as stated it was included simply to provide historical context.  There is not a chance in present day Britain that such statements would be printed without some form of legal comeback.



Why do you have to grovel? You remind me of those politicians who tell the truth and issue retraction after retraction. Who are you grovelling to? This is absurd.

Enoch Powell's views on immigration are still supported by the majority of the British population, as revealed in the common phrase "Enoch was right". Why apologise. You seem to be saying, "I am not really a patriot. I really don't mind a rise in violent crime. I really am willing to pay through the nose for these people, honest. Grovel. Grovel."

Simon Heffer's wonderful article in the Daily Telegraph on the subject that Enoch was right shows that you still can print his views. Don't forget the jury refused to convict Nick Griffin, leader of the BNP, for views, including inter alia, a prediction (well before the London tube bombings) that Muslims in Britain were alienated enough to bomb the country... You don't have to grovel. You don't have to bend over. You don't have to take it up the jacksey. 
Title: Re: Beware of UK Visas Ofice in Kyiv
Post by: Moving on 17:11 20-Aug-2008
MMh i have a question...how many of you pay tax in Ukraine?  ;)

I do.  Every month.  My clients and employees say I am crazy, go figure. 

As for the visa situation, I registered when I needed to and paid my fines cheerfully when I missed a renewal date.

I will tender an observation that perhaps a higher percentage of expats pay taxes than the local citizenry.

if an ukrainian does that in the USA he/she gets banned

when you register, what kind of visas did you use? for instance foreigners in russia were getting business visa and working through that. or some of them would exit and re-enter the country many times a year to avoid hassles. in western countries this would be regarded as crime, not much different than nigerian coming to the Uk paying legitimate student visa.

and i do not want even to know how many lies expats tell to their authorities to have their fiancee/wife entering their countries.

the moral of the story it is that expats in non visa free countries break the laws of those countries as same as 3rd world immigrants do in the wesst
Title: Re: Beware of UK Visas Ofice in Kyiv
Post by: Moving on 17:14 20-Aug-2008

I have seen expats doing many illegal things to get visa/permits/etc...
This is how they respect the country.


there is nothing to explain to someone who worries more about a single tourists looking for some fun in kiev than having expats residing in Ukraine, proclaiming themselves respectful of the country, and breaking the laws here and there (including the laws of their own country)

Really? I assume you are referring to expats in Ukraine. Pray enlighten us as to your experiences, we are all ears (sic)!
Title: Re: Beware of UK Visas Ofice in Kyiv
Post by: P-N on 17:17 20-Aug-2008

Why do you have to grovel? You remind me of those politicians who tell the truth and issue retraction after retraction. Who are you grovelling to? This is absurd.

Enoch Powell's views on immigration are still supported by the majority of the British population, as revealed in the common phrase "Enoch was right". Why apologise. You seem to be saying, "I am not really a patriot. I really don't mind a rise in violent crime. I really am willing to pay through the nose for these people, honest. Grovel. Grovel."

Simon Heffer's wonderful article in the Daily Telegraph on the subject that Enoch was right shows that you still can print his views. Don't forget the jury refused to convict Nick Griffin, leader of the BNP, for views, including inter alia, a prediction (well before the London tube bombings) that Muslims in Britain were alienated enough to bomb the country... You don't have to grovel. You don't have to bend over. You don't have to take it up the jacksey. 

That is not grovelling - that is explanation.

How do you know if my thoughts are represented by Enoch Powell or not? - I have not stated my personal view one way or the other.  It is an assumption on your part.

I have never grovelled on here or anywhere else over my personal opinions - feel free to check all the numerous posts I have ever placed here.

I do not disagree that many still believe Enoch Powell was right but I have not said I am or am not one of them in any posts.

You have never met me - those here that have will probably assure I do not bend over for anybody morally or phyically, we either agree or not, I can either help them or I cannot, but I feel confident they will assure you I do not grovel.

When we meet, if you get here from China, you will be able to see for yourself if I am the type to grovel or not.

Grovelling is a sign of moral or physical weakness, explanation is a sign of education.
Title: Re: Beware of UK Visas Ofice in Kyiv
Post by: Moving on 17:18 20-Aug-2008
Sorry if we are boring you non-Brits here!

There was a documentary on TV a few weeks back one evening about a man and his partner with 20 kids, living on benefits. However they both had enough money to drink and smoke all day long, he said he would need to take home over £500 per week to get the same he was receiving in benefits. Further, if I recall the details correctly, he was demanding a larger home than the 5 bedroom house provided and paid for with housing benefits!

The REAL cost of unemployment (to UK) is £61 billion per year - see http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-426074/The-REAL-cost-unemployment-61-billion-year.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-426074/The-REAL-cost-unemployment-61-billion-year.html)

Is it any wonder the masses wish to come to Utopia when we so readily hand out our taxes to all and sundry?

happens in any western country, of course in the uk they get better treatment because not only the country holds responsibility towards them but also the country is richer than other EU state.
Title: Re: Beware of UK Visas Ofice in Kyiv
Post by: azzice on 17:35 20-Aug-2008


Azzice, if my earlier (and lengthy) post came across to you as racist, I have been misunderstood.  It was posted to provide a historical context to someones question.  The internet link held within the post (from Enouch Powell) was not included to raise racist sentiment but to provide historical context as to Britain in the 1960' and 1970's and the difficulties the then government had between a short term solution to a labour crisis and the forcasts of those such as Enouch Powell of the possible long term problems it would cause in society.





Oh no. Racists are "free spirit's" posts. He is a racist. He doesnt negate it. I know this kind of people... If he find some support on forum (and unfortunately he did) he will start with his race superiority non sense...wait and see... you know this people have to be stopped and banned as soon as possible...

Azzice, you didn't say where you are from. You may watch the end of our "glorious nation" (we don't generally go in for Kim Il-sung speak, but I'll take the backhanded compliment!), and you may even enjoy the spectacle... but at least we had a glorious nation to decline from in the first place, eh? Can you say the same?

Mmhhh without our army sacrifice your official language was german.
Title: Re: Beware of UK Visas Ofice in Kyiv
Post by: Carlusha on 18:08 20-Aug-2008
Sorry if we are boring you non-Brits here!

There was a documentary on TV a few weeks back one evening about a man and his partner with 20 kids, living on benefits. However they both had enough money to drink and smoke all day long, he said he would need to take home over £500 per week to get the same he was receiving in benefits. Further, if I recall the details correctly, he was demanding a larger home than the 5 bedroom house provided and paid for with housing benefits!

The REAL cost of unemployment (to UK) is £61 billion per year - see http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-426074/The-REAL-cost-unemployment-61-billion-year.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-426074/The-REAL-cost-unemployment-61-billion-year.html)

Is it any wonder the masses wish to come to Utopia when we so readily hand out our taxes to all and sundry?

happens in any western country, of course in the uk they get better treatment because not only the country holds responsibility towards them but also the country is richer than other EU state.


UK rich? How? Where? When? I suggest you look at this little list compiled by our friends, the CIA (gulp). Note, the top two!!!!!!!!!

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2079rank.html (https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2079rank.html)
Title: Re: Beware of UK Visas Ofice in Kyiv
Post by: free spirit on 18:12 20-Aug-2008
How do you know if my thoughts are represented by Enoch Powell or not? - I have not stated my personal view one way or the other.  It is an assumption on your part.


I have no idea, but then I did not say that Enoch represented your views. But having even mentioned him, you felt obliged to post a huge apology - I really do like it in the jacksey, I really am a paid-up multicultulturalist. It is if proving your loyalty to THE PARTY (see Soviet history) is your precondition to speak, or even mention Enoch. Good to know that like Winston Smith, you DO LOVE BIG BROTHER. Where did I say you didn't love Big Brother? I just noted that having even mentioned Goldstein (see the novel 1984 for the object of the 2 minute hate), you felt obliged to make clear that YOU DO LOVE BIG BROTHER. While I did not infer anything about your views either way, your need to clarify that you are loyal to THE PARTY is in fact a statement of opinions. And yes, the Labour, Lib Dems and Conservatives are every so slightly differing factions of THE SAME PARTY.

Quote
Grovelling is a sign of moral or physical weakness, explanation is a sign of education.


Exactly. That is exactly my point. You can speak freely on the subject without interjecting huge declarations of loyalty to THE PARTY.
Title: Re: Beware of UK Visas Ofice in Kyiv
Post by: ecocks on 18:15 20-Aug-2008
MMh i have a question...how many of you pay tax in Ukraine?  ;)

I do.  Every month.  My clients and employees say I am crazy, go figure. 

As for the visa situation, I registered when I needed to and paid my fines cheerfully when I missed a renewal date.

I will tender an observation that perhaps a higher percentage of expats pay taxes than the local citizenry.

if an ukrainian does that in the USA he/she gets banned

when you register, what kind of visas did you use? for instance foreigners in russia were getting business visa and working through that. or some of them would exit and re-enter the country many times a year to avoid hassles. in western countries this would be regarded as crime, not much different than nigerian coming to the Uk paying legitimate student visa.

and i do not want even to know how many lies expats tell to their authorities to have their fiancee/wife entering their countries.

the moral of the story it is that expats in non visa free countries break the laws of those countries as same as 3rd world immigrants do in the wesst

MMh i have a question...how many of you pay tax in Ukraine?  ;)

I do.  Every month.  My clients and employees say I am crazy, go figure. 

As for the visa situation, I registered when I needed to and paid my fines cheerfully when I missed a renewal date.

I will tender an observation that perhaps a higher percentage of expats pay taxes than the local citizenry.

if an ukrainian does that in the USA he/she gets banned

when you register, what kind of visas did you use? for instance foreigners in russia were getting business visa and working through that. or some of them would exit and re-enter the country many times a year to avoid hassles. in western countries this would be regarded as crime, not much different than nigerian coming to the Uk paying legitimate student visa.

and i do not want even to know how many lies expats tell to their authorities to have their fiancee/wife entering their countries.

the moral of the story it is that expats in non visa free countries break the laws of those countries as same as 3rd world immigrants do in the wesst

What visa did I use?  The one they told me to.

Banned?  I doubt it.

The moral is, there is a lot of mis- and dis- information in the world.  Be careful how much of it you spread.

As for accusing people of lying on visa applications about their wives, I would be a bit more cautious before throwing that out.  I am not sure what lie would be told, but it is a bit beyond the scope of an acceptable generalization for most (I think).
Title: Re: Beware of UK Visas Ofice in Kyiv
Post by: free spirit on 18:22 20-Aug-2008
Oh no. Racists are "free spirit's" posts. He is a racist. He doesnt negate it. I know this kind of people... If he find some support on forum (and unfortunately he did) he will start with his race superiority non sense...wait and see... you know this people have to be stopped and banned as soon as possible...

What are you talking about?? What is racism? If the term, first invented by Max Eastman in his translation of Trotsky's History of the Russian Revolution, has any meaning, then it would be confined to people who hate people of another race. But, my dear, you may notice I am in China, and I speak Chinese well, so you are barking up the wrong tree. Actually, what you are trying to do is stretch the definition to cover almost anything. People who want to keep their culture - racists. People who resent living in a country where the issue of race has taken over - racists. People who don't like violent crime - racists. All these -isms are a nonsense. No rational person would dislike anyone simply for being a member of a different race - I would far rather have a cup of tea with a cultured black man than the English slags that Azzice had the misfortunte to meet in Cyprus. But by the same token it is irrational to reduce political debate to accusations of -isms like this.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, you're gonna ban me. Er... that penalty is just a tad lighter than being deported to the gulag you pinkoes invented, don't you think. This is all nonsense, you can't stand your views being ripped into logical shreds... Oh, and what country is that that helped us avoid German rule then? I can't think of one, given Hitler's failure to bomb the BEF at Dunkirk. Your English is so poor that you can't be American, so what is this wonderful country that saved us????
Title: Re: Beware of UK Visas Ofice in Kyiv
Post by: P-N on 18:48 20-Aug-2008

I have no idea, but then I did not say that Enoch represented your views. But having even mentioned him, you felt obliged to post a huge apology - I really do like it in the jacksey, I really am a paid-up multicultulturalist. It is if proving your loyalty to THE PARTY (see Soviet history) is your precondition to speak, or even mention Enoch. Good to know that like Winston Smith, you DO LOVE BIG BROTHER. Where did I say you didn't love Big Brother? I just noted that having even mentioned Goldstein (see the novel 1984 for the object of the 2 minute hate), you felt obliged to make clear that YOU DO LOVE BIG BROTHER. While I did not infer anything about your views either way, your need to clarify that you are loyal to THE PARTY is in fact a statement of opinions. And yes, the Labour, Lib Dems and Conservatives are every so slightly differing factions of THE SAME PARTY.

Quote
Grovelling is a sign of moral or physical weakness, explanation is a sign of education.


Exactly. That is exactly my point. You can speak freely on the subject without interjecting huge declarations of loyalty to THE PARTY.

I do not see anywhere where I apologised for anything - I stated it was not put there to raise the racist card but for historical context and that I wanted it to be understood by azzice that was why it was included....for his benefit regarding the history of the UK over this issue.....after all he is not British.

I am not a paid up member of the "multicultural party", the fact I have permanent residency in Ukraine and return to the UK (begrudingly) only for family gatherings also precludes me from the "I think the UK is great party".

I absolutely agree with you that there is no major policy difference or any form of present or future strong leader in the current political wilderness which is the UK.

The fact that I do not "take it up the jacksey" from politicians in the UK, prefering to leave than put up with it, can assuredly be inferred I will also not take it from you.  Nobody has ever put words into my mouth or has been allowed to speak for me - you will not be the first to accomplish that task either I can assure you.

What I write on here is what I am prepared to share with others - what I do not write I am not.

You can take whatever inferences you wish from what I choose to write and what I choose not too in a public forum but do not try to interpret what is not written there for it may not be what you think.
Title: Re: Beware of UK Visas Ofice in Kyiv
Post by: Carlusha on 19:01 20-Aug-2008
I would like to thank whoever decided I was worthy a first forum "Smite" possibly in retaliation for posting a Thank You. I look forward to receiving many more smites in the future.

Smite me, smite me .......... I don't care.

Here, have a button to help!

(http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa164/jigsaw68_bucket/smite.jpg)
Title: Re: Beware of UK Visas Ofice in Kyiv
Post by: rjm on 19:03 20-Aug-2008
Sadly this thread is reflective of the general mood on this topic, alot of people are asking questions about whether the current imigration policy is correct for 2008 and as soon as that question is out in the open someone has to retort with the R word before a sensible discussion can begin, that is very sad in my view but typical of modern society.

Azzice, before you start talking about banning people why dont you contribute something useful yourself to this board rather than spout your liberal PC views, I defend your right to have them but please do not attack people  in the way you have who merely disagree with you! 
Title: Re: Beware of UK Visas Ofice in Kyiv
Post by: P-N on 19:13 20-Aug-2008
UK rich? How? Where? When? I suggest you look at this little list compiled by our friends, the CIA (gulp). Note, the top two!!!!!!!!!

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2079rank.html (https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2079rank.html)

Do you think if I clear the national debt of Niue, they will make me King or something?  :D :D :D :D :D :D
Title: Re: Beware of UK Visas Ofice in Kyiv
Post by: Carlusha on 19:29 20-Aug-2008
UK rich? How? Where? When? I suggest you look at this little list compiled by our friends, the CIA (gulp). Note, the top two!!!!!!!!!

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2079rank.html (https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2079rank.html)

Do you think if I clear the national debt of Niue, they will make me King or something?  :D :D :D :D :D :D

God, Nik, I was thinking exactly the same when I saw the list for the first time. I decided against it as I was $9,999,999 short of change in my pocket having just forked out for our air fares to Odessa.

Niue looks beautiful - see
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niue (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niue)

Title: Re: Beware of UK Visas Ofice in Kyiv
Post by: free spirit on 21:03 20-Aug-2008
I do not see anywhere where I apologised for anything - I stated it was not put there to raise the racist card but for historical context and that I wanted it to be understood by azzice that was why it was included....for his benefit regarding the history of the UK over this issue.....after all he is not British.

I am not a paid up member of the "multicultural party", the fact I have permanent residency in Ukraine and return to the UK (begrudingly) only for family gatherings also precludes me from the "I think the UK is great party".

I absolutely agree with you that there is no major policy difference or any form of present or future strong leader in the current political wilderness which is the UK.

The fact that I do not "take it up the jacksey" from politicians in the UK, prefering to leave than put up with it, can assuredly be inferred I will also not take it from you.  Nobody has ever put words into my mouth or has been allowed to speak for me - you will not be the first to accomplish that task either I can assure you.

What I write on here is what I am prepared to share with others - what I do not write I am not.

You can take whatever inferences you wish from what I choose to write and what I choose not too in a public forum but do not try to interpret what is not written there for it may not be what you think.

I think you will find that you were putting words in MY mouth - so everything you said above needs to be function both ways to be fair. I did NOT say - let me say, wearily, again - I did NOT say you supported Enoch Powell?????? But I did say, having tangentially mentioned him, you felt obliged to issue a huge explanation. My point was that there is no need to issue such explanations, because people should all be able to comment. The idea that you can only comment, as long as people know you are not going too far, suffocates any conversation, and keeps it within a straitjacket the limits of which are decided by the powers that be. I have no idea what your views on anything are, and so I would be unlikely to suggest what they might be to anyone. This takes the thread off into the tangent of "whether I have said you said something you didn't" and that is really navel-gazing and so I am not answering on this type of point in this thread again. My point is not to insinuate anything positive or negative about people I don't know - there is no political value in that - it is only of personal significance - but to make a political point. Maybe you didn't grasp this. My saying that someone should not issue a huge explanation of why a NON-PERSON has been mentioned was really nothing to do with you at all - but to make a political point. I hope you don't try to drag this back to a discussion about you - I am not focusing on anyone and not interested in discussing individuals I don't know - the point is political.
Title: Re: Beware of UK Visas Ofice in Kyiv
Post by: P-N on 06:40 21-Aug-2008
If azzice had been British, I would not have felt that an explanation was necessary at all - the fact he is not, I therefore felt, for his benefit, an explanation was necessary.  Pure and simple.

The explanation, was put there in part (and obviously failed), to show that your remarks were not racist remarks but political as there is a massive difference between the two.

As for you not putting words into my mouth - read your post:

"You seem to be saying, "I am not really a patriot. I really don't mind a rise in violent crime. I really am willing to pay through the nose for these people, honest. Grovel. Grovel."

What do you call that? 

My lengthy post states (thus negating the words you tried to put in my mouth):

"The majority of posters (i think  :-\ ) would not be against the migration of educated, competent skilled people coming into the UK to benefit the UK, particularly on a "contract basis" as I have worked around the world.  They will be against the mass migration of unskilled and morally iligitimate migrants coming to the UK for the obvious benefits to themselves without returning anything to the UK in the short, medium or long term which past migration policies have allowed almost unhindered."

It is not case of "dragging this back to a discussion about me" it is a case of having the moral backbone to highlight the fact that anyone who has an interest in politics, as you obviously do, should also have the capacity to remember, or at least check what they have previously stated (or in this case written) for the sake of consistency and accuracy should they want their political point to be made without it losing it's edge to side issues which this has become, to the detriment of your widely held and supported (to a greater or lesser extent by most) views on the subject.
Title: Re: Beware of UK Visas Ofice in Kyiv
Post by: free spirit on 09:01 21-Aug-2008
Anyone who has an interest in politics, as you obviously do, should also have the capacity to remember, or at least check what they have previously stated (or in this case written) for the sake of consistency and accuracy should they want their political point to be made without it losing it's edge to side issues which this has become, to the detriment of your widely held and supported (to a greater or lesser extent by most) views on the subject.

Yes, that is a fair point. I will bear it in mind. Thank you.
Title: Re: Beware of UK Visas Ofice in Kyiv
Post by: Carlusha on 10:21 21-Aug-2008
Touché!  ;)
Title: Re: Beware of UK Visas Ofice in Kyiv
Post by: JonathanCampion on 10:33 21-Aug-2008
The thread, lunging as it has from the sublime to the ridiculous, it a pretty fair metaphor for Britain. I'm embarrassed by the way the country is represented: as a nation of knife-wielders by our own media to our own people, and as a hoarde of WKD-fuelled slags as our twentysomethings portray us to other nationalities.

We all look at it from different angles, all 50-odd million of us - I love (and miss) the multi-cultural aspect of it and am too young to have more than a faint understanding of who Enoch Powell is. But then again I'm also too young to be influenced by ideas of tax and crime figures as I have no other generation to compare them too, so don't understand the detriment that immigration is doing to Britain as well as some do. But we would all agree that it isn't a bad place.
Title: Re: Beware of UK Visas Ofice in Kyiv
Post by: azzice on 13:58 21-Aug-2008
Maybe i m stupid or ignorant but in my opinion:

non white = non british
black = crime, knife, benefits

are racists statements.

I m I wrong?
Title: Re: Beware of UK Visas Ofice in Kyiv
Post by: rjm on 14:14 21-Aug-2008
Now that we have established that you are Ukrainian have you ever thought of discussing this sort of stuff with your fellow citizens, I would suggest that most of them could do with a few lessons rather than anyone on here. Maybe start off with some basics by explaining that the word "nigger" hasnt been acceptable anywhere since the fall of the iron curtain!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Just a thought  ;)

 
Maybe i m stupid or ignorant but in my opinion:

non white = non british
black = crime, knife, benefits

are racists statements.

I m I wrong?
Title: Re: Beware of UK Visas Ofice in Kyiv
Post by: JonathanCampion on 14:23 21-Aug-2008
Stupid statements, yes. The first one - to my mind - isn't racist per se because, to any sane person, believing someone isn't British isn't the same thing as believing they are "worse". It only becomes racism when the idea is put into practice, and the rights within a country are unfairly divided: "You're not a real American so get off this bus" etc.

My reaction to the Russian "negr" is calming down - I despise the English word, but if it stems from the Italian (Latin?) "negra" it's no less politically correct than "black". But I'm not defending Ukrainian attitudes to non-whites (I'm also not going to cover old ground).
Title: Re: Beware of UK Visas Ofice in Kyiv
Post by: azzice on 15:38 21-Aug-2008
Now that we have established that you are Ukrainian have you ever thought of discussing this sort of stuff with your fellow citizens, I would suggest that most of them could do with a few lessons rather than anyone on here. Maybe start off with some basics by explaining that the word "nigger" hasnt been acceptable anywhere since the fall of the iron curtain!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Just a thought  ;)

 
Maybe i m stupid or ignorant but in my opinion:

non white = non british
black = crime, knife, benefits

are racists statements.

I m I wrong?

And ?

How stupid and childish is your post....

We have a lot of idiots in our country just as everywhere.
Title: Re: Beware of UK Visas Ofice in Kyiv
Post by: azzice on 15:44 21-Aug-2008
I dont know english but a little bit of latin yes

Nigrum=black

Or instead of Nigeria tha country, or Niger the river, we have to speak about Blackeria or Blacker river?
Title: Re: Beware of UK Visas Ofice in Kyiv
Post by: JonathanCampion on 15:52 21-Aug-2008
It's like the old Mikhail Zadornov joke about how he couldn't understand black Americans being called "afro-Americans", and how when Viktor Chernomyrdin got his visa to visit there he should have become Afromyrdin...
Title: Re: Beware of UK Visas Ofice in Kyiv
Post by: rjm on 16:14 21-Aug-2008
Well my advice is dont bother leaving Ukraine then, looks as if your in good company  ;)   

Now that we have established that you are Ukrainian have you ever thought of discussing this sort of stuff with your fellow citizens, I would suggest that most of them could do with a few lessons rather than anyone on here. Maybe start off with some basics by explaining that the word "nigger" hasnt been acceptable anywhere since the fall of the iron curtain!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Just a thought  ;)

 
Maybe i m stupid or ignorant but in my opinion:

non white = non british
black = crime, knife, benefits

are racists statements.

I m I wrong?

And ?

How stupid and childish is your post....

We have a lot of idiots in our country just as everywhere.
Title: Re: Beware of UK Visas Ofice in Kyiv
Post by: P-N on 16:26 21-Aug-2008
I dont know english but a little bit of latin yes

Nigrum=black

Or instead of Nigeria tha country, or Niger the river, we have to speak about Blackeria or Blacker river?

The word "Niger" is not racist - the sentiment behind it can be.

It is a word which has gone cyclically in and out of fashion and with different sentiment behind it.

In the 1970's, 80's, 90's, it was used predominently by "whites" in a racist or derogatory tone just as the word "honky" was used by those when refering to "whites".  A "quid pro quo" trade off.

Recently, when watching Hollywood films and listening to Rap Music, you will hear/see black artists use the word frequently both in friendly terms when with friends meeting each other - example "Hey what's up niger?" (Snoop Dog) and in derogatory terms when there is a conflict between them "This niger gonna get you". (DMX)

The word has dual meaning between black people and is completely dependent on the sentiment behind it.

There is also a seemingly pointless mainstream drive to call black people "Afro-caribean" over the use of the word "black" through misguided political correctness.  You have to doubt the reasoning behind it when there are recognised events such as the MOBO awards in the UK (MOBO stands for Music Of Black Origin......strangely not MOACO Music Of Afro-Caribean Origin) despite the madness of the current state of "political correctness" which surpassed what a reasonable person would call "reasonable" a long long time ago across the whole spectrum of modern day life not just race.

There cannot be many words, if any, which are in themselves racist for they are only words - racism comes solely from the sentiment behind the words.



Title: Re: Beware of UK Visas Ofice in Kyiv
Post by: free spirit on 03:10 22-Aug-2008
Stupid statements, yes. The first one - to my mind - isn't racist per se because, to any sane person, believing someone isn't British isn't the same thing as believing they are "worse". It only becomes racism when the idea is put into practice, and the rights within a country are unfairly divided: "You're not a real American so get off this bus" etc.

My reaction to the Russian "negr" is calming down - I despise the English word, but if it stems from the Italian (Latin?) "negra" it's no less politically correct than "black". But I'm not defending Ukrainian attitudes to non-whites (I'm also not going to cover old ground).

Aaaargh! What a load of nonsense!

Actually, Jonathan, apart from the meaninglessness of the term "racist" itself, if it means anything it would apply to people like you. Clearly you sneer down your nose at Ukrainians. There is nothing wrong with the word negr - I use the Engish word negro myself, although I certainly don't object to the use of the word nigger. Some people behave in such a way that a stronger epithet is called for. There seems to be a cultural problem in the West exhibited by Jonathan - yes, Jonathan is just the jumping-off point for this comment, and he will probably try to make this thread all about him just like PN, which is part of the self-obsessed nature of Western people all trying to show how morally superior they are (and therefore, according to Nietzsche revealing their inferiority): many people in the West are engaged in a status struggle to be seen as morally superior. This can be seen in the race issue, and then the homo issue, and then the environmental issue - these people get sniffy about other people's use of plastic bags, as it gives them a rush of moral superiority to deliver an (ignorant) speech about supposed global warming.

What is the reason for this social phenomenon, this "struggle" for moral superiority as indeed exhibited by many posters here (as you each engage in the struggle, you each get right up your own buttock s about whether your comments have been portrayed correctly etd, but this is just the struggle for moral status in another guise)? As Jonathan has said, he is a recent graduate, and so probably unexposed to free thinking. It is shame that recent graduates are of a quality that cannot be compared with graduates when universities were genuine intellectual centres, so his degree is, in my eyes, just a piece of bog roll. But I digress (yes, yes, yes, PN, by digressing, I open an avenue for self-obsessed moral status strugglers to divert the conversation to something all about themselves, but that is strictly their psychological problem).

It seems that the real morality of family, church and nation has been comprehensively debunked in the UK. One could say that middle-class people have always exhibited a petty bourgeois concern to demonstrate their moral status in public. But at least in the old days, that meant supporting family, church and nation, all to the good of a healthy society. These forces were centripetal, helping to make a proper society. You could say that just as the hidden hand of the market means that self-interest helps the economy to progress, so the hidden hand of petty bourgeois self-righteousness at least reinforced values that were essential to society's health.

The difference today is that the values holding society together have been trashed by the media, and of course these Jonathan-types lift all their opinions from the media. So anti-racism, anti-sexism, pro-homo-ism, and extreme environmentalism are all used as a way for the petty bourgeois to find an outlet for their self-righteousness. But these new values are destructive of society, and so Western society seems to be heading to hell in a handcart as a result.

So, in addition, we traipse around the world, telling the "natives" what to do. Young girls go off to Africa and start lecturing them to gain a rush of moral superiority. Jonathan lectures the Ukrainians on race to demonstrate (to himself) his superiority... it just seems so dysfunctional, and really quite a sad outcome for what was once a great culture.
Title: Re: Beware of UK Visas Ofice in Kyiv
Post by: azzice on 13:58 22-Aug-2008
Well my advice is dont bother leaving Ukraine then, looks as if your in good company  ;)  

Now that we have established that you are Ukrainian have you ever thought of discussing this sort of stuff with your fellow citizens, I would suggest that most of them could do with a few lessons rather than anyone on here. Maybe start off with some basics by explaining that the word "nigger" hasnt been acceptable anywhere since the fall of the iron curtain!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Just a thought  ;)

 
Maybe i m stupid or ignorant but in my opinion:

non white = non british
black = crime, knife, benefits

are racists statements.

I m I wrong?

And ?

How stupid and childish is your post....

We have a lot of idiots in our country just as everywhere.

Thanks for compliment. Can you give me some english lessons will pay you 10 usd per hour?
Title: Re: Beware of UK Visas Ofice in Kyiv
Post by: matlockk on 07:19 31-Aug-2008
MMh i have a question...how many of you pay tax in Ukraine?  ;)

Me and my fellow expats who I work with all pay tax. to get a work permit you have to have a tax ID. Nothing to do with visa. To suggest foreigners are not paying tax is nonsense.
Title: Re: Beware of UK Visas Ofice in Kyiv
Post by: matlockk on 07:24 31-Aug-2008
Having been on holiday in Spain for a couple of weeks I found this thread entertaining. I can't wait for the next Conservative government to be elected. Bring it on! Why? Because then after a couple of years nothing will have changed in the UK and I'd like then to pose some questions to those that continually complain about the UK on this site.
Title: Re: Beware of UK Visas Ofice in Kyiv
Post by: P-N on 07:37 31-Aug-2008
Keith, the "Torries" are just as bad - the UK simply does not have a political leader or policy within any party to stop the rot.

The last Prime Minister we had who did not lie was Thatcher (whether she was good or bad).

The country will soon be faced with a choice (if we stick to the major parties) of Cameron or Miliband, neither of which I would trust to organise an orgy in a brothel successfully.  ::)
Title: Re: Beware of UK Visas Ofice in Kyiv
Post by: BritKyiv on 18:14 09-Sep-2008
Getting back on thread......

I sent a leter of complaint to the Entry Clearance Manager in Kyiv.
I received a reply the same day, but from Mr/Mrs NO NAME.

Here is the reply: 

Thank you for your email.
 
               The VFS website, www.ukvac-ua.com contains lists of documents which can be used by applicants as a guideline of the minimum evidences required to satisfy a visa officer. You appear to be familiar with
 
 the lists, however, allow me to draw your attention to item (e) listed under "PLEASE NOTE" at the foot of the lists,
 
                                 "You may be asked to provide some further documentary evidence in addition to the above"
 
With over forty years collective experience of visa and immigration work, the visa officers in Kyiv are well aware that one size does not fit all, no list of documents will be suitable for all applicants. Moreover, submission of every documents on any list does not guarantee the issue of a visa. I repeat the lists are offered a guideline to assist applicants to compile an application.
 
Although you were "fully confident that the documents were enough to show (y)our marriage and relationship"  clearly, the visa officer, with rather more experience of the irregular aspects of visa applications felt the additional evidences were necessary. Whilst you may have found the submission of extra documents irksome, I'm sure you will find it welcome that the visa officers in Kyiv approach their work in this assiduous manner.
 
I trust you and your wife will enjoy your holidays in the United Kingdom.
 
UK visa section
Kiev   
Title: Re: Beware of UK Visas Ofice in Kyiv
Post by: P-N on 18:30 09-Sep-2008
What a brave individual - I wonder if I spoke with friends in the tax police "who have considerably more experience" than the Visa Officer in this case regarding the personal taxation of the Visa Officer, would find it welcome that the Tax Police "approach their work in such an assidious manner."

Wish they had given a name....what a w***er!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Beware of UK Visas Ofice in Kyiv
Post by: SteveH on 19:00 09-Sep-2008
"With over forty years collective experience of visa and immigration work"

Hi B.K.,I did Not Realise 40 People Worked in this Section ;D ;D
Title: Re: Beware of UK Visas Ofice in Kyiv
Post by: phasar on 21:26 09-Sep-2008
"With over forty years collective experience of visa and immigration work"

Hi B.K.,I did Not Realise 40 People Worked in this Section ;D ;D


ROTFLMAO!!!!
Title: Re: Beware of UK Visas Ofice in Kyiv
Post by: rjm on 22:58 09-Sep-2008
Just the sort of bullpoop 'civil service' response you expect from them!

Well you did better than me,I am still awaiting a reply from the last 2 letters I wrote to them on personal issues.

Thank god I am not paying UK tax these days in order to keep this bunch of cretins going in cocktails in Shooters at weekends!

Meanwhile back in the real world....................................

Getting back on thread......

I sent a leter of complaint to the Entry Clearance Manager in Kyiv.
I received a reply the same day, but from Mr/Mrs NO NAME.

Here is the reply: 

Thank you for your email.
 
               The VFS website, www.ukvac-ua.com contains lists of documents which can be used by applicants as a guideline of the minimum evidences required to satisfy a visa officer. You appear to be familiar with
 
 the lists, however, allow me to draw your attention to item (e) listed under "PLEASE NOTE" at the foot of the lists,
 
                                 "You may be asked to provide some further documentary evidence in addition to the above"
 
With over forty years collective experience of visa and immigration work, the visa officers in Kyiv are well aware that one size does not fit all, no list of documents will be suitable for all applicants. Moreover, submission of every documents on any list does not guarantee the issue of a visa. I repeat the lists are offered a guideline to assist applicants to compile an application.
 
Although you were "fully confident that the documents were enough to show (y)our marriage and relationship"  clearly, the visa officer, with rather more experience of the irregular aspects of visa applications felt the additional evidences were necessary. Whilst you may have found the submission of extra documents irksome, I'm sure you will find it welcome that the visa officers in Kyiv approach their work in this assiduous manner.
 
I trust you and your wife will enjoy your holidays in the United Kingdom.
 
UK visa section
Kiev   

Title: Re: Beware of UK Visas Ofice in Kyiv
Post by: matlockk on 06:30 10-Sep-2008
Just the sort of bullpoop 'civil service' response you expect from them!

Well you did better than me,I am still awaiting a reply from the last 2 letters I wrote to them on personal issues.

Thank god I am not paying UK tax these days in order to keep this bunch of cretins going in cocktails in Shooters at weekends!

Meanwhile back in the real world....................................

Getting back on thread......

I sent a leter of complaint to the Entry Clearance Manager in Kyiv.
I received a reply the same day, but from Mr/Mrs NO NAME.

Here is the reply: 

Thank you for your email.
 
               The VFS website, www.ukvac-ua.com contains lists of documents which can be used by applicants as a guideline of the minimum evidences required to satisfy a visa officer. You appear to be familiar with
 
 the lists, however, allow me to draw your attention to item (e) listed under "PLEASE NOTE" at the foot of the lists,
 
                                 "You may be asked to provide some further documentary evidence in addition to the above"
 
With over forty years collective experience of visa and immigration work, the visa officers in Kyiv are well aware that one size does not fit all, no list of documents will be suitable for all applicants. Moreover, submission of every documents on any list does not guarantee the issue of a visa. I repeat the lists are offered a guideline to assist applicants to compile an application.
 
Although you were "fully confident that the documents were enough to show (y)our marriage and relationship"  clearly, the visa officer, with rather more experience of the irregular aspects of visa applications felt the additional evidences were necessary. Whilst you may have found the submission of extra documents irksome, I'm sure you will find it welcome that the visa officers in Kyiv approach their work in this assiduous manner.
 
I trust you and your wife will enjoy your holidays in the United Kingdom.
 
UK visa section
Kiev   


Obviously a southern jessie using words like irksome and assiduous. Independence for Yorkshire I say then we can have our own consulate in Kiev with Michael Parkinson as the Ambassador " nathen GB, does t'missus like crikit?" Of course! "She's in then, si thi" ;)

To be honest though the trail of documents I had to get for my other half for 2 weeks in Spain was unbelievable and I'm just going through it personally for Russia.
Title: Re: Beware of UK Visas Ofice in Kyiv
Post by: P-N on 06:49 10-Sep-2008
Keith, re Russia, I know you said your good lady went on ahead of you.  Is she in Moscow by any chance.  If she is I know someone who can "expedite matters like multi entry business visas" etc etc from Moscow.  Can PM you the number if necessary  :)
Title: Re: Beware of UK Visas Ofice in Kyiv
Post by: matlockk on 10:35 10-Sep-2008
Thanks Nik, but it's all in process. No problems just irksome ;)
Title: Re: Beware of UK Visas Ofice in Kyiv
Post by: BritKyiv on 12:32 10-Sep-2008

I have just heard that invitations are going round for a Garden Party tonight at the British Ambassador’s Residence to introduce the new Ambassador Leigh Turner and Deputy Head of Mission Judith Gardiner on Wednesday, 10 September 1800-2000.

I did'nt get an ivite!!! ???

Shhuurrlllyy...some mistake  :'(

Title: Re: Beware of UK Visas Ofice in Kyiv
Post by: Carlusha on 12:53 10-Sep-2008

I have just heard that invitations are going round for a Garden Party tonight at the British Ambassador’s Residence to introduce the new Ambassador Leigh Turner and Deputy Head of Mission Judith Gardiner on Wednesday, 10 September 1800-2000.

I did'nt get an ivite!!! ???

Shhuurrlllyy...some mistake  :'(


Maybe the new Ambassador is a big fan of Google Chrome! Sorry, G, couldn't resist it!  ::)
Title: Re: Beware of UK Visas Ofice in Kyiv
Post by: P-N on 13:35 10-Sep-2008
As they are new here - no doubt both your and my invites are stuck in the Ukrainian postal system (as they didn't know any better) and will arrive sometime 2011  :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
Title: Re: Beware of UK Visas Ofice in Kyiv
Post by: BritKyiv on 15:54 10-Sep-2008
Maybe this will be more interesting:

For chiefs of the EBA member companies and diplomats only:

Herewith we would like to remind you that you may still register at events@eba.com.ua for the   EBA General Membership Meeting featuring Chairman of the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine buttock niy Yatsenyuk,  which will take place on 11 September, at 19:00, at Hyatt Regency Hotel,  Ball Room,  5-a Alla Tarasova St. 

The reception offering  the attendees a lively foyer-talk with a glass of Champaign will start at 18:30.

The EBA truly believes that this top-level meeting will give you an exclusive opportunity to  hear  a high-rank politician voice his opinion and share his professional views and vast experience on a range of the issues of vital importance.

Main Sponsor - Raiffeisen Bank Aval, Ojsc

P.S. -   Please note that the Secretariat of Chairman of the Verhovna Rada has confirmed Mr Yatsenyuk's attendance.

 
Look forward to seeing you soon!


Yours sincerely,
EBA team
Title: Re: Beware of UK Visas Ofice in Kyiv
Post by: rjm on 19:54 10-Sep-2008
With regards to the the garden party you are missing out on nothing, I have been invited before to such events and have never bothered going, I had the misfortune in my youth to have been educated with many fledgling British diplomats and Ive spent most of the rest of my life trying to avoid such people, their knowledge of real life is usually practically zero and 10 minutes in their company is enough to send me heading towards the exit gates. Any experience Ive had by phone or in person with our embassy has been always very negative and this was no different when I lived in Moscow.

However an opportunity to fire some burning issues at the new ambassador would be the only useful purpose the night could offer, however expecting sensible answers is quite another thing!

However the Hyatt gathering would undoubtedly be a more interesting evening!
Title: Re: Beware of UK Visas Ofice in Kyiv
Post by: Glyn Thomas. on 14:42 14-Jul-2011
Well... no further posts for almost 3 years....!

So....Is the UK visa office getting it right?

I will let you know in the course of the next few days from my own point of view as my beloved I and II have applied so we can get back to UK to show Beloved II off to my parents.

Appointment tomorrow.



 
Title: Re: Beware of UK Visas Ofice in Kyiv
Post by: Travel Writer on 14:47 14-Jul-2011
Best of luck, Ace.

They were very pleasant and efficient last autumn.
Title: Re: Beware of UK Visas Ofice in Kyiv
Post by: Carlusha on 15:42 14-Jul-2011
Well... no further posts for almost 3 years....!

So....Is the UK visa office getting it right?

I will let you know in the course of the next few days from my own point of view as my beloved I and II have applied so we can get back to UK to show Beloved II off to my parents.

Appointment tomorrow.

 

Best of luck - hope all goes well for you all!
Title: Re: Beware of UK Visas Ofice in Kyiv
Post by: Glyn Thomas. on 09:36 26-Jul-2011
I still don't know who was more worried - my girlfriend or the Visa section - but... the applications were approved!!

:-)

Title: Re: Beware of UK Visas Ofice in Kyiv
Post by: Carlusha on 13:26 26-Jul-2011
I still don't know who was more worried - my girlfriend or the Visa section - but... the applications were approved!!

:-)



Yippee!
Title: Re: Beware of UK Visas Ofice in Kyiv
Post by: BritKyiv on 20:07 26-Jul-2011
Ace, we talked about this already and all are happy now.

However on a serious note. Why should we have to endure all this CRAP about getting a visa for a wife/daughter to visit the UK.

Remember, I mentioned about EU law. There is a crazy EU law that allows an EU citizen to live and work (or not work) in ANY EU country apart from his/her OWN country of origin/citizenship.

If any EU citizen would like a copy of the document, I can show you where to find it on our web site.

Basically, the law states that if an EU citizen wishes to take his/her spouse to another EU country THEY have the automatic right to do so. Even if the spouse is a Non-EU citizen. When a spouse visits an Embassy/Visa Office to obtain a Schengen Visa, they are only required to produce a passport and marriage certificate and a copy of the partners EU passport. THATS IT. No other documents are required. Problem is as you may have guessed is that many of the EU Embassies ignore this important EU law and many do not even know about it. Brussels now have a special hot-line for EU citizens to call if their spouse is having problems with any Embassy from the EU.

But it ONLY applies if you are going to another EU country...not your own country. You thought only Ukraine had crazy laws?